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rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
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 Re:

The purpose for the heavenly priesthood is in the word of God. The writer to the Hebrews alludes to the fact that there is much to be understood, "And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, called by God as High Priest, "according to the order of Melchizedek," of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing." Hebrews 5:9-11. The evidence of the heavenly priesthood of Melchizedek has always been in existences. There are many hard things to explain. What hindered the Hebrews also hinders us today. We like the Hebrews are dull of hearing. As I stated in my previous post, we are justified by the law of faith, (Romans 3:27-28) and faith comes by hearing the word of God. (Romans 10:17) As we read the Scriptures and obey the commands of our High Priest, the Holy Spirit teaches us to know God.

Also in Hebrews 7:3, Melchizedek "remains a priest continually. This means His priesthood is everlasting. So the covenant that God made with Abraham and his descendants after him is an everlasting covenant. All those who lived by the law of faith entered into the same covenant that God made with Abraham. I will be God to you and you will be my people.

As iron sharpens iron, speaking the truth in love...


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/3 12:02Profile
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 Re: The Old Covenant v the New Covenant

The Covenant referred as the Old Covenant was once a new covenant. It was the covenant entered into between God and the nation of Israel in Exodus 19-24. According to Galatians 'it was added' to the Promise given to Abraham 'because of transgressions' and was only ever intended to be temporary 'til the Seed should come'.

There is a difference between the Sinai Covenant and the Covenants which preceded it. In reference to divorce and marriage Jesus quoted the Sinai Covenant and then said it was due to the 'hardness of men's hearts' but 'it was not so from the beginning'. This shows clearly that conditions during the Sinai Covenant were different to an earlier code. It also shows that we need to be cautious in applying Sinai codes to non-Sinai conditions. What I mean is that the Sinai Covenant was fulfilled in Christ and is no longer operable. This, in turn, means that all the promises from Exodus 24 to Acts 1 need to be interpreted rather than applied literally. e.g. 'I will heal your land' was a specific promise to Israel under the terms of the Sinai Covenant which was always related to ‘the land’.

We do well, I think, to remember that 'the nation' and the 'congregation of Israel' are synonymous terms in the Old Testament. In other words there was no distinction between ‘church and state’. In the OT 'congregation’ is often ‘qahal’ and was translated ‘ecclesia’ in the Septuagint. When Jesus addressed a group of men who already regarded themselves as ‘the congregation/ecclesia of Israel’ it must have been mind-blowing to hear Him say ‘upon this rock will I build my ecclesia’. The Jews of His day knew well the implications of His sayings. Their comment in John 9:28 to the blind man was very telling “thou art his disciple; but we are Moses’ disciples”.

The Sinai Covenant is now no more; past its ‘sell-by date’. In the UK houses often have ‘restrictive covenants’ e.g. for the first 5 years after building you can’t park a caravan or keep chickens in the yard, but when the time period is ended the covenants no longer apply.

All this is to underline that the New Covenant has replaced the Sinai Covenant. I will batten down the hatches now and wait for the storm… Then we can look at the relationship of the New Covenant to God’s promises and covenant with Abraham.


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Ron Bailey

 2003/12/3 13:48Profile
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 Re:

JeffMarshalek on 2003/12/3 wrote All those who lived by the law of faith entered into the same covenant that God made with Abraham. I will be God to you and you will be my people.

Jeff
It is very important to understand that God justified Abraham before He entered into covenant with him. We must distinguish between a promise and a covenant. A promise is a one-off transaction, a covenant is a life-long relationship. God entered in a covenant with Abraham [Gen 15:18] after he had been justified by faith [Gen 15:6]


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Ron Bailey

 2003/12/3 14:00Profile
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 Re:

You are absolutely correct. God did declare Abraham righteous before He made a covenant with him. In addition, God commanded Abram,"Get out of your country, from your family and from your father's house, to a land I will show you..." Genesis 12:1-3 You see it is God who speaks! We are given the choice to obey or rebel. We learn from Scripture that Abram believed. In other words, he obeyed. So later, in Genesis 15:6, Abram has walked with the Lord. He has seen that as God had promised to bless those who bless Abram and to curse those who curse Abram, so it has come to pass. God is faithful. Abram has been blessed by Melchizedek, and shared in His bread and wine.

By the law of faith, we enter into the promise of the freewoman. (Galatians 4:24) What must be understood in the way of covenants is this. All covenants or promises originate with the Creator. The will of God for man is determined in Genesis 3:15. "And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed." God declared with and oath that those who follow satan are condemned by His righteousness, and those who obey and follow Jesus are restored to the Jerusalem which is above.
The Trinity has always existed, Jesus is the same always. He lives to make intercession for the saint.

Amen


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/3 15:39Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
The Holiest of All by Andrew Murray, pg 36



"It is of the utmost consequence for our spiritual life that we should rightly understand these two stages of God's dealing with man. In two way, not in one; not in more than two; in two ways has God spoken.

They indicate what, in substance , is God's way with every Christian. There is, after his conversion, a time of preparation and testing, to see whether he willingly and heatily sacrifices all for the full blessing. If in this stage he perservers in earnest effort and striving, he will be brought to learn the two lessons the Old Testament was meant to teach. He will become more deeply conscious of his own impotence, and the strong desire will be awakened after a better life, to be found in the full revelation of Christ as able to save completely. When those two lessons are learned, the lesson of despair of self and hope in God alone, the soul is prepared, if it will yield itself in faith to the leading of the Holy Spirit, to enter truly into the New Testament life within the veil, in the very Holiest of All, as it is set forth in this Epistle." (The book of Hebrews)

The law given on Mount Sinai was given to a nation. The law of God applies to all who will ever live on this earth. All men are condemned by the law. It is spiritual, man is carnal. God's provision for man to receive His righteousness is through Jesus Christ. "That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world." John 1:9

See also Job 33:13-30

As iron sharpens iron, speaking the truth in love


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/3 15:58Profile
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 Re:

God is the same always. This precept is often quoted by many but few realize how this attribute of God permeates the entire Holy Scripture. In Psalm 40:6-8, and again quoted in Hebrews 10:7, "Then I said, Behold, I have come- In the volume of the book it is written of Me-to do Your will, O God." The entire revelation of God to us in the written word speaks of Jesus doing the will of His Father. We often talk about man being predestined from the beginning of time, yet we seldom ascribe this same attribute to the Trinity. Remember, "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him ALL THINGS WERE CREATED that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. ALL THINGS WERE CREATED THROUGH HIM AND FOR HIM." Colossians 1:15-16. Has anyone who lived before us or will live after us not been created and touched by Jesus? Has the Seed not worked in those who came before His incarnation as He has worked in us after His ascending back to the right hand side of His Father? Are not those who are born again of the Spirit of God, in all generations, from Abel to the end of God's plan?

I once was lost, and when God called again and again, I responded. Yet as a new believer, I was dull of hearing. I questioned those who taught, what is faith. How do I know? No one could answer. I struggled for 3 years, asking how is one saved? God sent a young preacher to tell me, "If the Bible says it so, I believe it." I gave up that day, I believed Romans chapter 3. Since that day God continues to increase and I continue to decrease. I hear His voice through out the Holy Scriptures, saying just believe what I am saying to you. Trust in Me. The result is that I die alittle bit more day by day to my carnal ways. I am being trained to look to Him who is the author and finisher of my faith.

I say this all because once I heard Him speak through the Scriptures I knew where faith came. And once I knew where faith came from, I also understood in a moment, that all who ever lived by that same faith, heard the same voice. This is how one knows that God is the same always.


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/5 18:19Profile
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 Re: the Old and the New contrasted

my quote: All this is to underline that the New Covenant has replaced the Sinai Covenant. I will batten down the hatches now and wait for the storm… Then we can look at the relationship of the New Covenant to God’s promises and covenant with Abraham.

Well, the storm never arrived. It was that word 'replaced' that I thought might start it off. Still, I have no complaints.

The contrasts and comparisons between the Old (Sinai) and the New are varied and comprehensive. Moses prophesied of Christ. This was a key feature in early Christian thought but is seldom mentioned now. [Acts 3:22, 7:37] The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; [Deuteronomy 18:15] This can be a valuable line of thought; the parallels between Moses and Christ.
1. It begins with the attempt to destroy God's deliverer with a pre-emptive stike; Both Pharoah and Herod targetting baby boys.
2. It continues in many aspects through the whole idea of mediation. Moses was the mediator of the Old Covenant; Christ is the mediator of the New. [Heb 8:6, 9:15, 12:24] A mediator is the living link between God and man.
3. The Old Covenant people were 'baptised into Moses'[1 Cor 10:2]; the New Covenant people are 'baptised in Christ's body'[1 Cor 12:13].
4. the Rabbi's saw where all this was leading only too plainly; thou art his disciple, but we are Moses' disciples. [John 9:28]
5. The establishing of the Old Covenant in Ex 19-24 is a thrilling preparation for the New, and the parallels are powerful. [Ex 24:8 cf Lk 22:20] The Jews believe that Sinai synchronised with Pentecost, so to them Pentecost was a focus on the beginning of the Covenant and the receiving of the law.
6. Moses ascends to receive the commandments and a cloud hides him from sight; so does Christ [Ex 24:15 cf Acts 1:9]

But it is the nature of the Covenants which is an amazing contrast. The Sinai Covenant is external; their baptism is external, the law is written in stone, blood is sprinkled, water is applied, God is with His people, the Spirit's anointings come upon the people. Holiness too is external cleansing. It is all very wonderful but none of it penetrates, it is all external. By contrast the New Covenant is internal, our baptism is in Spirit, the law is written in the heart, we drink His blood, and quench our thirst with eternal life, God who has been 'with you' 'shall be in you', even the 'anointing' 'now abideth in you', and we become fellowsharers of a divine nature; holiness on the inside.

What comparisons and contrasts do you see?


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Ron Bailey

 2003/12/12 10:30Profile
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 Re:

A few contrasts:
1)The law in the old results in death, in the new it results in life. This is highlighetd at their beginnings, the two great pentecosts, at one 5000 died at the other 5000 were made alive.

[b]Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were through the law, wrought in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the power of sin is the law.

Ro 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
[/b]

2)The new Covenant is Permanent the old was temporary:

[b]
2 Cor3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Galatians 3:19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Heb 7:23,24 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
[/b]

3)A Building
[b]
Hebrews 9:1,2 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.For there was a tabernacle made...

...v11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
[/b]







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Stuart

 2003/12/12 11:49Profile
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 Re:

Hi Ron,
Please forgive me, as I read your posts, I see your heart. My heart has been quick to judge. The sword cuts both ways. He shows me my foul heart daily.

Andrew Murray writes, "The one was provisional, preparatory, and intended to pass away. What is gave and wrought was not meant to satisfy, but only to awaken the expectation of something better that was to come. The other was the fulfilment of what had been promised, and destined to last for ever, because it was itself a complete revelation of an everlasting redemption, of a salvation in the power of an endless life.

In both the Old and New Testament it was God who spake. The prophets in the Old, and the Son in the New, were equally God's messengers. God spake in the prophets no less truly than in the Son. But in the Old everything was external and through the mediation of men. God Himself could not yet enter and take posssession of man and dwell in him. In the New all is more directly and immediately divine--in an inward power and reality and life, of which the Old had only the shadow and hope. The Son, who is God, brings us into the very presence of God."

Because of the law, "He will become more deeply conscious of his own impotence, and the strong desire will be wakened after a better life, to be found in the full revelation of Christ as able to save completely." Andrew Murray's thoughts writen in "The Holiest of All..

in Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/12 12:01Profile
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 Re:

Hi Ron,

I need to add some more, as you have thought about the
Covenant that was made with Abraham 430 years prior to the Covenant made on mount Sinai. Both covenants existed simultaneously. Both were enforce. In fact I believe in Hebrews 6:17, speaks to the thought that the way of faith and grace has always existed. But God chose to reveal this truth to Abraham and all those who followed. "Thus God, DETERMINING TO SHOW MORE ABUNDANTLY TO THE HEIRS OF PROMISE the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath." This says to me that God chose to reveal Himself in writen form of Scripture to be a testament to all who would read the book of Moses.

in Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/12 13:07Profile





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