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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 118
Austin Tx.

 The breaking of a believer, What God will not use?

Hello, In reading Greg's devotional called "THE COMMISSION OF THE CALL" I am asking a serious question, needing a spiritual response backed up with scripture. Will God use christians, who are teaching His word incorrectly, representing Him falsely before the church, as a tool to perfect you, break you as Oswald Chambers states in his devotional?? I am going through a shaken to the point, I want to leave my church and start a new work. The reason is in the question above.


 2005/10/1 9:42Profile

 Re: The breaking of a believer, What God will not use?


You are or may be, asking the wrong question, I feel. In the O Chambers devotional, it was God who was in charge of the process. He specifically mentions [i]God[/i] using people who one does not 'like' (One could easily say 'does not agree with', instead.) to do the necessary crushing. I think, you will be crushed wherever you are, if God is intent on pouring you out for others.

This scripture came to mind.

Philippians 1

15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

I agree it is a problem if the Bible itself is not being expounded correctly. I know you've mentioned this before and have tried to talk to the person in question. Only you can decide whether the ministry is leading people away from truth. It [i]is[/i] possible to sit under very mediocre teaching/ministry, and because it is [i]so[/i] mediocre, and there is no interference with people's private devotional lives, they can actually go on with God, in spite of deeply unsatisfactory leadership. And God sees to it that they do.

For you, the questions are big.... around what God Himself is calling you into.... around the sacrifices required to begin a new work.... around the responsibility for souls and whether you are equipped for such a burden by the Lord's preparation to date... around the kind of support you'd get from other true brethren if you did leave.

I wonder whether there is still a prayer ministry in the church of which you're a part and what it's like? Do others see what you see is wrong and can the needs be prayed for quite openly, before you decide to leave altogether?

 2005/10/1 21:20

Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2772
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: The breaking of a believer, What God will not use?

I want...

What does the Lord want?

In Christ,


Ron Halverson

 2005/10/1 22:53Profile

Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 118
Austin Tx.


I wonder whether there is still a prayer ministry in the church of which you're a part and what it's like? Do others see what you see is wrong and can the needs be prayed for quite openly, before you decide to leave altogether?

I am a part of the worship team, now for 3 years. We have shared the need for corporate prayer and also for the leadership, of which I am a part of. That was 5 weeks ago, and as with many things like this, it gets put off..than dropped. There are about 4 of us who are like minded and gather together to seek the Lord. I have shared this concern for a year now, they see the problems and agree. I have been doing home groups studies and jail ministries for 3 years, though my heart desire is to stay, for my love for God's people there, I desire to serve more in the pastoral role than I am now, but only when the Lord says so. I want His approval and anointing, this is why I suffer with this each sunday. I just want to jump out of my seat and declare the graciousness and mercy of God, to give hope and encouragement to those in need. Many have been unsettled since the hurricanes, leaving with few answers to their questions or worse, leaving with litle change to faith in christ! I'm seeking the Lord for insight, before you all, wanting to be careful not to offend and not to displease the Lord in stepping out..beyond His Will. Blessings.


 2005/10/1 23:18Profile


Dorcas and InTheLight answered you well.

What I see in this second post is a bit more than what you shared in the first.

We've been in your predicament. The thing I wonder most is ... How bad 'is' this Pastor's teachings ?

The key in this 2nd post is the saying ""I desire to serve more in the pastoral role and I just want to jump out of my seat and declare .....""

They say it's wrong to covet another man's position. You'd have to discern if that is what you are doing.

2nd, Do you want to have a pastoral position in any specific area or "just" with those in your church ?

That's important for you to know. Because we must make every attempt to examine our own motives with such scrutinizing, "with" God's help. All of our hearts are deceptively wicked, and to discern our own "motives" tops the list on being "honest with God" and allow Him to shine light on this. Sometimes, if we just "examine ourselves", we can actually see the truth without some big revelation and see when we're acting for self-glory or whatever.

If this is just leading to a sort of mutiny on the bounty, then it would be wrong. If there are backstabbing sessions about the Pastor, this is wrong.

We were taught, that if a Pastor preaches heresy, you go to him (Matt 18 style), loving him as much as anyone else who has gone astray ... but if that doesn't work,,, you just quietly and peacefully leave, because he only stands before God after that, and so do his sheep, who choose for themselves to hear God's Voice for themselves, whether they should stay or go, etc.

If you wouldn't mind being offered a Pastoral position 40 minutes away, then I'd say, leave your Church, because it is not your love for these particular people that is your motivator.

If you want to truly stay, because you truly do want to be broken and yet help those people, just ask the Pastor would he mind if you had a once a week prayer and devotional time in the Church, or at someone's home.

The "breaking" will come, in that you will commit to not speak against him to another of the members there. And be cognizant if you are trying to "out-do" him, at these meetings.
God holds us responsible for every thought, so that means, even a flash of a thought, we can be cognizant of ... so even if a camera flash of a thought, such as, "this ought to show them who the better man is", pops into mind, then you know your motives and know you are not broken yet in this.

The ministry of "encouragement" that you say you want to give, can be done at that once a week meeting.

If more than one of you have requested corporate prayer meetings and it's been "put off", then you just ask him again and if the Church isn't available,say, we can find a home to meet in or if these folks are serious about praying and all, do it in "home groups" you already are a part of. If someone of you has the keys to the Church, I doubt your Pastor would mind if you guys open the door to just pray.

Our motives come in background-type-camera-flash-speed 'thoughts', and we need to learn that "other voice" within. It's there (secular folks call it the 'sub-conscience' thoughts - but that's not God's Words) and we don't normally know that we are accountable to know our every thought... else-wise, how could God judge and hold us accountable for every thought & motive.

David also prayed that God would show him his secret heart or hidden within sin/motives.

A chapter of Proverbs a day is good too.

I think the whole of both your posts have to center on "motives" ... then all else will go well for you.

I hope I haven't sounded too hard. I scrutinize myself this way too, as much as I can remember to take the time to do it. Examine our own thoughts, takes that "moment pause" before speaking or acting and it can be rough to "take the moment pause" first and be painfully honest with or to ourselves of why we want to say or do things. :-?

We're tricky critters inside, ya know ?

Anyhow, let's end this on a happy note.
Seeing how you're a Texan and into Music, here's one for ya to help ya through these tough decisions ;-) .

With our prayers.

 2005/10/2 2:16

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