SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is asking Jesus for anything Sin?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

I would only ask that those who speak for Jesus will check out how many times HE used the only words the Jews understood to be GOD .... Jesus said, "I AM" and also the other O.T. Quote, 'I AM THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA - THE BEGINNING AND THE END.'


Please be careful here, pray and study more before you teach anyone WHO JESUS IS.


Thank you and God Bless you all.
Annie

 2005/9/19 14:55









 Re: Is asking Jesus for anything Sin?

Dear Annie,

Quote:
'..to take one ounce of The Logos' Deity away from Him is very dangerous ground.

If that is a possible interpretation of something I said, it was not intended to be or even vaguely implied. If anything I was thinking of the difference between 'the Logos' and the words He spoke ... that's all.

In the light of John 17
4 'I have glorified thee on the earth: [b]I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do[/b].
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was...'

it is clear that He was completely on earth while He was the Word made Flesh.


In no way does this detract from His Deity in my mind.

I hope this is now clear.

 2005/9/19 15:07









 Re:

Dorcas, I was responding as I have been, since before your post sister, on the "Co-Equality" and the TriUnity of God. The 'Equality' of the Three in One.

That has been my sole objective in every post to this thread so far and all that I am concerned with.

God Bless you.

Annie

 2005/9/19 15:33
LetUsPray
Member



Joined: 2004/10/12
Posts: 173


 Re: Is asking Jesus for anything Sin?

Thank you all very much for your patience.

Jesus said: And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free (John 8:32).

I don’t want to drag this out, nor do I want to be smart. I only seek truth and love in the Body.

I am totally sincere when I ask you this. What did Jesus mean when He said:

“And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you” (John 16:23).

If I have offended anyone, please forgive for this is the LAST thing I want to do. This is also my last entry on this thread, unless more thank you's are in order.

God bless you all,


_________________
Hans Prang

 2005/9/19 16:15Profile









 Re:

Hi Hans,

As I posted to ya on page one.... I ONLY disagreed with ya on the "non-co-equality" statements, that you posted more than once.

Christ 'did' give an order of prayer and as I said, I do agree with you on that.

Pray to the Father, by the Authority of Jesus, and IN the Holy Spirit... so you've gotten no complaint from me on that.

I'm not 'offended' at all personally.

I think we are to "die to 'personal' offense" eventually in our walks.

But I can't say, Let's agree for peace & unity, because that statement, in and of itself, is not Scriptural. Jesus said, that won't happen, so did Paul.

Love will always be there between us, but we won't agree on saying Jesus is not Co-Equal with The Father ... that's all.

Love you and Lord prosper your ministry to the Nursing Home and I just have asked that you also stay open on just this one point, that actually is a biggie... though does not affect our love for each other.

Always.
Annie

 2005/9/19 16:26
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re:

LUP,

Ask all the questions you want. Please search out the Scriptures and pray that God gives you insight, as our answers our second rate.

This take is the best I have heard on praying in Jesus' name. John R Rice explains these concepts in his sermon and book 'Prayer, Asking and Receiving.' Dr. Rice explains how this verse about asking in Jesus' name is the only time in Scripture that this is mentioned. Praying in Jesus' name is not mentioned in any of the books after the gospels, or was never mentioned during the Lord's prayer, in the garden, the cross, or anywhere after.

Rice's take is that basically our pattern for prayer today is based upon incidentals, rather that fundamentals. Most people today feel that they must use lots of thee's and thou's in the beginning of their prayer. That they must kick up gold dust and tickle the feet of the angels and so forth. When in actuality, the prayers God answered in the gospels were prayers such as, 'Lord save me, God be merciful to me a sinner,' and sometimes no words verbally, but yet an obvious prayer of the heart shown by action.

What Rice's take is concerning our praying in Jesus' name, is basically praying in His authority and in His will. When we pray for things that honor Him, we pray properly. In other words it is the same as what James says, that we 'receive not' because we 'ask amiss.' Anything asked just to satisfy our own lustful way is not getting the attention of God. So it is not being asked in His name.

When we pray a prayer that is not honoring God, but we say 'in Jesus' name' at the end of the prayer, we are just signing our name on the document, instead of the signature of Him. So we aren't really even praying, we are just going through a motion.

This being said, it is not necessarily wrong to say 'in Jesus' name' at the end of a prayer, but important to realize that all of our prayers should be done in Jesus' authority, or in other words, we should pray properly regardless of whether we say that at the end or not. So whether we say 'in Jesus' name' at the end of the prayer or not, when we pray 'amiss' we are not praying in His name, or in other words in His authority. He does not hear our prayers when we ask sinfully:

Isaiah 59:2 "your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear."


_________________
Hal Bachman

 2005/9/20 0:57Profile









 Re: Tri-Unity = Equality = One God.

:-(

This is not an attack on any one person, but a defense of The Triune nature of God.

I've tried to let this go. I've tried to just go to sleep and wait and see if some other scholarly brothers on here would catch page 2.

I posted that I was waiting and wanting a male to do this.

My heart is sorta busted up by what went on and the things said.

I tried so hard to not go reread page 2, but the thing has been haunting me all day and night.

Is there anyone else here who has studied Christology at Bible School ? Anyone who sees themselves as Christocentric or the Bible as being such, from O.T. to N.T. ?

I'm so sad, I can just about type this ... but I've got to at least get part of this off of my chest, because others have no problem with doing that with me.

I'll make this part one and pray someone will do part 2 for me ... We're talking about "Jesus" here and CO-EQUALITY if anyone wants to contribute ....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, [b]I am[/b] [i](he,-not in the Greek)[/i] they went backward, and fell to the ground.

He called Himself "I AM". In the "present tense".

Why did they all fall to the ground ? Not on their faces, but backwards.

That moment could have given them a space of time to repent, but as Wesley said, "probably the priests among them might persuade themselves and their attendants, that this also was done by Beelzebub; and that it was through the providence of God, not the 'indulgence' of Jesus, that they received no farther damage."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that [b]I am[/b] [i] (he,-not in the Greek)[/i] ye shall die in your sins.

Joh 8:24 - If ye believe not that I AM - Here (as in Joh_8:58) our Lord claims the Divine name, I AM, Exo_3:14. J. Wesley
**********************************
I am (εγώ ειμι) the words are rather the solemn expression of His absolute divine being, as in Joh_8:58 : “If ye believe not that I am.”
[u]See[/u] Deu_32:39; Isa_43:10; and compare Joh_8:28, Joh_8:58 of this chapter, and Joh_13:19. Vincents
**********************************
The phrase egō eimi occurs three times here (Joh_8:24, Joh_8:28, Joh_8:58) and also in Joh_13:19. Jesus seems to claim absolute divine being as in Joh_8:58. Robertson

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, [b]I am[/b].

“Verily, verily, I say unto you; I do not only say it in private to my own disciples, who will be sure to say as I say, but to you my enemies and persecutors; I say it to your faces, take it how you will: Before Abraham was, I am;” prin Abraam genesthaî egō eimi, Before Abraham was made or born, I am. The change of the word is observable, and bespeaks Abraham a creature, and himself the Creator; well therefore might he make himself greater than Abraham. Before Abraham he was, First, As God. I am, is the name of God (Exo_3:14); it denotes his self-existence; he does not say, I was, but I am, for he is the first and the last, immutably the same (Rev_1:8); thus he was not only before Abraham, but before all worlds, Joh_1:1; Pro_8:23. Secondly, As Mediator. He was the appointed Messiah, long before Abraham; the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev_13:8), the channel of conveyance of light, life, and love from God to man. This supposes his divine nature, that he is the same in himself from eternity (Heb_13:8) M. Henry
*********************************
I am: That our Lord by this expression asserted his divinity and eternal existence, as the great I AM, appears evident from the use of the present tense, instead of the past tense, from its being in answer to the Jews, who enquired whether he had seen Abraham, and from its being thus understood by the multitude, who were exasperated at it to such a degree that they took up stones to stone him. The ancient Jews not only believed that the Messiah was superior to and Lord of all the patriarchs, and even of angels, but that his celestial nature existed with God from whom it emanated, before the creation, and that the creation was effected by his ministry. Exo_3:14; Isa_43:13, Isa_44:6, Isa_44:8, Isa_46:9,

Isa_48:12; Rev_1:8 R.A. Torrey

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From page two. This verse was mentioned.....

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

God . . . all in all--as Christ is all in all (Col_3:11; compare Zec_14:9).

1Co 15:28 -
- When the administration of the kingdom of grace is finally closed; when there shall be no longer any state of probation, and consequently no longer need of a distinction between the kingdom of grace and the kingdom of glory; then the Son, as being man and Messiah, shall cease to exercise any distinct dominion and God be all in all: there remaining no longer any distinction in the persons of the glorious Trinity, as acting any distinct or separate parts in either the kingdom of grace, or the kingdom of glory, and so the one infinite essence shall appear undivided and eternal. And yet, as there appears to be a personality essentially in the infinite Godhead, that personality must exist eternally; but how this shall be we can neither tell nor know till that time comes in which we shall See Him as He Is. 1Jo_3:2. Adam Clarke

*********************************

that God may be all in all; for by God is not meant the Father personally, but God essentially considered, Father, Son, and Spirit, who are the one true and living God; to whom all the saints will have immediate access, in whose presence they will be, and with whom they shall have uninterrupted fellowship, without the use of such mediums as they now enjoy; all the three divine Persons will have equal power and government in and over all the saints; they will sit upon one and the same throne; there will be no more acting by a delegated power, or a derived authority: God will be all things to all his saints, immediately without the use of means; he will be that to their bodies as meat and clothes are, without the use of them; and all light, glory, and happiness to their souls, without the use of ordinances, or any means; he will then be all perfection and bliss, to all the elect, and in them all, which he now is not; some are dead in trespasses and sins, and under the power of Satan; the number of them in conversion is not yet completed; and, of those that are called many are in a state of imperfection, and have flesh as well as spirit in them; and of those who are fallen asleep in Christ, though their separate spirits are happy with him, yet their bodies lie in the grave, and under the power of corruption and death; but then all being called by grace, and all being raised, and glorified in soul and body, God will be all in all: this phrase expresses both the perfect government of God, Father, Son, and Spirit, over the saints to all eternity, and their perfect happiness in soul and body, the glory of all which will be ascribed to God; and it will be then seen that all that the Father has done in election, in the council and covenant of peace, were all to the glory of his grace; and that all that the Son has done in the salvation of his people, is all to the glory of the divine perfections: and that all that the Spirit of God has wrought in the saints, and all that they have done under his grace and influence, are all to the praise and glory of God, which will in the most perfect manner be given to the eternal Three in One. Gill

*************************************************
Before the Incarnation, was there Anyone but One God ?

Now onto Future tense .....

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in 'that day' shall there be one LORD, and his Name One.

Rev. 10 & 11 were brought up, but not translated properly on page 2, so I'm going to the End of All things to bring those Chpt.s to Light.

At the end of Revelation ... when all is brought back under One God ... from vs 3, do you see anything different ? ... Remembering, these 5 verses are one continuous sentence.

Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and 'his' servants shall serve 'him':
Rev 22:4 And they shall see 'his' face; and 'his' name shall be in their foreheads{Rev 3:12}.
Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for 'the Lord God' giveth them light: and they shall reign forever and ever.
Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and 'the Lord God' of the holy prophets sent his angel to show unto 'his' servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the saying of the prophecy of this book. ETC.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


With Love in Him.
Annie

 2005/9/20 5:12
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re: Is asking Jesus for anything Sin?

In my experience....

I was raised one of Jehovah's Witnesses. What many Christians don't know about the JW's is that they are hard core bible believers. They take it to be literal. So literal in fact, that they do not believe in the trinity. No where in the bible does it state that Jesus is God.

When I was growing up, I was taught that Jesus was the first of all creation. He was Michael the Archangel. He was a Lord but not the Lord. God had given Jesus all authority over the earth and heavens, however, Jesus was not and is not God.

And so, when I was growing up, I never prayed to Jesus. I would pray to the Father, whose name (Psalms 83:18) is Jehovah. I would pray through Jesus, and in Jesus' name. I was taught to say, "In Jesus' name, Amen." However, I was never to pray to Jesus or worship Jesus. I was never to ask Jesus to forgive my sins. Only God can forgive sins. Only God deserves worship. And God, as I was told, is Jehovah.

Then, I was saved, and I realized the truth. All the years of my life I had been praying to the wrong God. I had been decieved. Jesus Christ is the only God whom can forgive sins, and by which someone can be saved. When I came to know Jesus and pray to Him, my prayers were answered. I was saved.

In my experience, I have learned there is but one God, and He is Jesus Christ. I could argue and defend this with scripture, parables, and logical arguments, but it will do no good. For all of Christianity centers on this one secret which is hidden from all: Jesus Christ is God.

It is hidden from all so that we may believe it by faith. As all Christians with a testimony know, our faith is not based upon a bible or an argument or what someone has told us. True faith is based upon an experience. A testimony is based upon testifying to Christ and the truth of Christ. True faith comes from being saved and knowing you are saved by meeting Christ. We know Christ because He comes down from Heaven and saves us. It is a real experience. I have not met a Christian who could not describe thier testimony, this experience, and tell the exact date.

As far as your question, "Is asking Jesus for anything sin?"

One of Jehovah's Witnesses would most likely answer "yes" to your question. All I can say is that by my experience, none of your prayers will be answered unless you ask for them from Jesus. Jesus Christ is the only name by which a person may be saved. If it is a sin to pray to Jesus, then how should anyone be saved?


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2005/9/20 8:54Profile
samkma
Member



Joined: 2005/9/18
Posts: 15
Bahrain

 Re: Is asking Jesus for anything Sin?

Personally I do not want to jump into a judging mood and say it is a sin or not, but one thing can be said for sure is that, Asking apart from the will of God is missing the mark. We are not told to pray for anything but to pray for His WILL to be done in our lives.
Blessings :-)

 2005/9/20 10:18Profile
LetUsPray
Member



Joined: 2004/10/12
Posts: 173


 Re: Is asking Jesus for anything Sin?

Brothers and Sisters in the Lord,

I break the earlier statement I made, that I wouldn’t continue this thread. It has been suggested that I pray and ask God; I have to consider what others think, etc., etc.

I have done that and do that. I am a man of prayer first and foremost. I don’t want to be smart. I dislike hurting people even when I don’t agree with them. I serve a Savior Who dug me out of the pit of despair, Who loves me, and to Whom I have committed myself to follow at whatever cost. A part of that commitment is sharing what He has shown me.

The reason that I write what I write is that I prayed and fasted for a period of approximately three months, after the Lord told me to repent on the morning of February 9, 2001. I did break the fast occasionally during that time; otherwise I wouldn’t be writing this. A number of things that I had been taught and had believed changed during that time. These things all pertained to Church doctrine and denominational beliefs.

Prior to this morning, my main “ministry” was counseling, mostly deliverance. This was not sought out by me; I tried to run from it many times. It shows a man the most ugly things that mankind does to one another as result of demonic influence. What I learned through this and in the last few years, is that if there is anything that lacks in the Church of Jesus Christ is true love and forgiveness.

I have more to say about praying to the Father and about the Trinity, but I am very reluctant to, because we – being human – see things through the glasses of our worldview; in other words, we see them the way we are taught and are comfortable with. We can debate these things until the Lord returns and never agree, therefore I am not sure if it serves any purpose or is edifying.

I love you too Annie.

God bless you all,





_________________
Hans Prang

 2005/9/20 12:16Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy