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Joined: 2005/3/1
Posts: 156
Tacoma, WA

 I am not special.

I don't know if I should actually post this thread yet or not. Its been tearing at me for some time, and I don't think this particular topic is fully divulged in my thinking or my patience.

Basically what I want to say is the header: I am not special. Every time I ask a teacher whether or not I'm special, I will almost unanimously get yes. The few who don't state so qualify it with comparison to an overwhelming topical aptitude. If I were to ask my family if I were special, they would undoubtedly say yes. And if I were to ask many of my friends, the bulk would also disagree with me. So then why don't I believe I'm special? Simple. Because I'm not.

I am not unique. There is no talent within me that I would ever suggest is greater than even a quantity of "gifted" individuals throughout the course of history. I am not entirely inept in any given field I've found, either. My level of intelligence is comparative to the vast quantity of individuals I've met (this is an entirely different (but related) topic.) Being 21, my knowledge base is not incredibly pronounced. I am neither overly athletic or athletically incapable.

I am not spiritually magnificent or incredible. I am not a "remnant." I am a member of God's house. There is nothing within my experience that I have not seen another individual experience in a similar degree. I have met ten-year-olds with more spiritual maturity than I possess. I have never dealt with the occult personally, nor (to my knowledge) any of its derivatives.

There is nothing about me that makes me stand above creation.

Why then, should I treat myself as if I am? Why should I look at the world and say I am so different? What makes me special? Why should I believe such things?

Don't get me wrong. God makes it pretty clear He loves us. He also loves us unilaterally. This is not the point I'm trying to make. Yes, it really does appear that I'm special if you compare me to a mushroom. That applies even if you were to compare me to a dog, a dolphin, or a duck-billed platypus. But why should I look at my next-door, unsaved neighbor and say to myself, "I am special?" Does God love him less? Did God give me more talents? WHY AM I SPECIAL?

To the crux of the matter, this is a humanist argument. Its right there in Manifesto II. Part of the evolutionary theory. Each individual is special. Pets are people, too.

I wish I could say this is a warning. Maybe it is. I have managed to convince a godly friend of this - although it was a fight. He'll probably never call me special again. In fact, I think he even agrees with me. One person I would consider spiritually more mature than myself. Maybe I could convince one of you, tonight. This is a multifaceted argument, and at least 3 solid points permeate this post. Before you reply with, "You really are special, and..." try to find all three of them. Read over them and consider them. Then, if you think I'm a crackpot, feel free to tell me I'm special because I'm a lunatic.

(*Note: This post was written with the express intent of triggering reactions - although not necessarily on the keyboard. Grammatical mistakes mostly intentional.*)

I really do want answers - although an answer doesn't necessarily have to be a contradiction. This is a simple argument to dismiss and I would appreciate your time and effort.

David Reynolds

 2005/9/15 0:47Profile

 Re: I am not special.

Pets aren't people too ? :-o

Ha, only playing. I'm an animal saver, what can you expect out of a nut that takes more in then she can afford and has a wild bird hospital in the bathroom. Oh and I save bugs too. Haaa.

You'd have to define "special" I think.

Pride Stinks, if that's where you're going here, but I feel each person created is special.

I don't feel I'm special, for as many reasons as you don't feel you are .... but yet, I see everyone else as 'special' because I feel the Love that God feels for them. I don't "possess" that love for all, as He does, but when I do feel it, I understand how He feels about you or others and feel to Him, you are special.
I believe all are, Saved and unsaved.
But the saved are the jewels in His crown.

We're to see others as better than ourselves, so I think, I half agree with you completely :-D .

If we see everyone on earth as special, but not ourselves, wouldn't that be O.K. ?

My daughter is special to me and I tell her she is, but she also knows that I believe, my neighbor's daughter is special too, and everyone's daughter is, and if my daughter got jealous because I thought all daughters are special, then she wouldn't be understanding the Love of God... luckily, she understands me when I let her know she's special.

As long as we don't make anyone feel they are "Special-ER" than anyone else.

That's where you'd need to define special again though ... 'cause your wife may be specialer to you than other ladies, in a sense.

I dunno, I reckon I'll meet ya half way on it.

You're special and I'm not and I'd prefer to keep it that way ... until God Himself shows me otherwise.

His Love to you.

 2005/9/15 1:19

Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633

 You're Not Special

I am really fired up about this subject, because I've been exploring it myself for a long time. I would like to share some things which I have come to believe are true and which have made me realize, I am [i]really[/i] special.

You see, if you read in your Bible, you find that God chose the nation of Israel to be the nation out of which all the nations of the earth would be blessed. Genesis 18:17-18 says, "And the Lord said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; Seeing tht Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed by him?" That's pretty special, wouldn't you say? Why did God choose Abraham and the nation which would come from his loins? Were they special? I don't have the time right now to look up all the scripture to support my 'theory' here, but do the research yourself. God chose Abraham and the nation of Israel because they weren't special. He said they were the least of all nations. God likes working in this way because he gets lots of glory.

Another thing which I have come to believe is true, is this: God loves everyone, but God does have favorites. He will bless whom he will bless, and he will curse whom he will curse. If God has chosen you, then that makes you special, because God doesn't choose everyone. He chooses some vessels for honor and some for dishonor. And it's [i]His[/i] perogative. He's the creator, he can do what he wants to with his creation. So, if God has brought you into his family, you are special, not because of anything you've done, but because God Almighty has picked you out of the crowd. Isn't that amazing? Isn't that overwhelming love and grace? You've been chosen by God to be a vessel of honor! Now, go forth and glorify God. Love, Dian.

 2005/9/15 5:54Profile

 Re: You're Not Special


He will bless whom he will bless, and he will curse whom he will curse.

Haven't we moved on to 'whoseover will may come'? And

(NKJV) Revelation 22:17
And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!"
And let him who hears say, "Come!"
And let him who thirsts come.
Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

 2005/9/15 6:54

Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633

 Re: moved on?

Dorcas, moved on from where? Wasn't the lamb that was slain, slain from the foundation of the world? What have we moved from? Love, Dian.

 2005/9/15 7:07Profile

 Re: I am not special - re moved on?

Dian, I'm a little sensitive about the whole topic of cursing and the suggestion that God is still in the business of cursing whom He will curse, upsets me.

Yes, the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, but the Father still had put into operation various curses, which, my understanding is, were abolished when the cross actually came to pass in the fulness of time.

I understand there is power in words, and blessing and cursing are still a reality, but, my understanding is also that God has bound Himself to His word, to bless those who accept Christ and keep His word, build their house on His word, live by his word, speak out His word, testify to the truth of His word and allow themselves generally to be living epistles to the world.

We may be speaking at cross-purposes here and I'm open to be corrected but, that's what I had in mind - that since Christ, 'whosoever' may opt out of the curses to which they were subject because of sin, and now, God has commanded the blessing to all who believe.

Even of old, God did not 'curse' indiscriminately, but, until the greater revelation of His heart, it was hard to understand the context in which He 'cursed'

From what you said, I took it you are saying God [i][b]still[/b][/i] curses whom He will curse, in an [i][b]active[/b][/i] way. Whereas my understanding is, all the cursing has been done, and is being outworked on those who finally, still do not believe.

 2005/9/15 7:58

Joined: 2005/3/1
Posts: 156
Tacoma, WA

 Re: You're Not Special


It is interesting that you should choose to view the rest of the people of this world as special, but discount yourself. I don't really have the time to dig in and do the research right now, but I have been told many a time by people that a negative pride is still pride.

I have no hard time defining special to me. There are a few people in this world who are quite special to me, and I doubt anything will ever change that. If my wife (hypothetically speaking) were not more special to me than another woman, then there would be the makings of adultery.

But am I more special to God? Saul was special to God. He prophecied with the prophets. He was an excellent leader and a solid Israelite. But he made choices that were not akin to God's desires because they seemed more merciful or better. He didn't consider the ramifications of some of his actions two and three generations down the road before deciding to go against God's will. And so he was replaced by a young man no more special than he. This man chose to act more steadily upon God's will. He lost it a few times and did several things in direct discord with established acceptable practice according to the Mosaic covenant. But he listened and made more of those hard (and mostly unfathomable) choices (specifically for his country). Really, does what happened through him make him more special in God's eyes, or does it show God allowing gratitude?

I guess this means to me that special is a sort of particular elevation. Am I to be elevated by thinking myself "special?" And if everyone is so elevated, doesn't that make it worthless?

Jesus was special. I don't think Elijah was special. I don't even think Moses to be more special. They're heald in high regard because of an example they set, but that does not make them "special" per se.


I don't know if what I just typed would help clarify my stance on this for you. And I won't ever say that that impress to you is not correct. However from pretty much the same exact line of thinking that derives that for you, I get the exact opposite response. Abraham chose to listen and do things according to God's statements. I don't think his mediocraty had anything to do with it, really. You'll notice along the way he payed tribute to other godly men. Once again, I don't know if God's proposition of him really made him special. But he did as God asked, and God held to his promise.

For that same token, was Paul special or did he merely possess the skills and desires necessary for God to impact him so readily? God made him to be useful, and rallied him to that cause. But He also made Peter, Jeremiah, and me. I doubt that he would ignore me any more than any of these figures. I also doubt that he would ignore my neighbor so.


I doubt I'll ever come to the conclusion that the Father started acting differently after the cross. He isn't a teddy bear to me now any more than He was to Moses (whom he held right until the time a major promise was to be filled, and then denied this son its end.) I doubt He would tell Israel that blessings and curses would be passed through generations and not hold true any more than He would ignore that same thing in us. And I know that curses are effective.

If God can curse David and his whole family, the man who's line He would bring His Son (and that supposed change) through, why should I consider myself exempt?

David Reynolds

 2005/9/15 11:57Profile

Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania


Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

In Christ,

Gary Eckenroth

 2005/9/15 12:36Profile

 Re: I am not special

PTywama3 said

I doubt I'll ever come to the conclusion that the Father started acting differently after the cross. He isn't a teddy bear to me now any more than He was to Moses (whom he held right until the time a major promise was to be filled, and then denied this son its end.) I doubt He would tell Israel that blessings and curses would be passed through generations and not hold true any more than He would ignore that same thing in us. And I know that curses are effective.

If God can curse David and his whole family, the man who's line He would bring His Son (and that supposed change) through, why should I consider myself exempt?

Thank you for giving me a question to chew on....

Your first sentence to me holds two ideas together, which need to be separated.

'I doubt I'll ever come to the conclusion that the Father started acting differently after the cross.'

The first 'idea' is 'the Father'. I agree with you that [u]the Father[/u] is the same eternal I AM.

What changed in [i]time[/i] was that the Word - His Son - became Flesh and dwelt among us.

Picking up my mention of 'the cross', (the second 'idea') there is a world of difference in the relationship between God and man [i]before it[/i] and God and man [i]after it[/i]. Here are a few scriptures.

2 Timothy 1:10
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour [b]Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death[/b], [u]and hath brought life and immortality to light[/u] through the gospel:

Hebrews 2:14, 15
'.. that [b]through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil[/b]; [u]and deliver them who through fear of death were [i][b]all their lifetime subject to bondage[/b][/i][/u].

Matthew 27:51
And, behold, [b]the veil of the temple was rent[/b] in twain from the top to the bottom; and [b]the earth did quake, and the rocks rent[/b];

Acts 2
1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

16 But [b]this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel[/b];
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, [b]I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh[/b]:

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, [covenant] that he may establish the second [covenant].
10 [b]By the which will we are sanctified[/b] through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, [b]after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever[/b], sat down on the right hand of God;
13 [b]From [u]henceforth[/u] expecting[/b] till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For [b]by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified[/b].
15 Whereof [b]the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us[/b]: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, [b]there is no more offering for sin[/b].

 2005/9/15 13:08


He [the Father] isn't a teddy bear to me now any more than He was to Moses

Perhaps I should check up what you meant by 'teddy bear'..... but in the meantime, I will say the Father is not a pushover, nevertheless, He was well-pleased with the work of His beloved Son, who was obedient. (Mark 9:7, Matt 3:17,)

That's the deal - obedience. After that, we all have the same access to the Father, through grace. A great deal has changed through the abolition of the Old Covenant and Pentecost, the beginning of the day of [i]grace[/i], through faith.

John 5
17 But [b]Jesus answered them, My Father[/b] worketh hitherto, and I work.
18 [b][u]Therefore[/u] the Jews sought the more to kill him[/b], because he not only had broken the sabbath, [b]but said also that God was his Father[/b], making himself equal with God.
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Romans 5:1, 2
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: by whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

2 Corinthians 1:3
Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, [b]the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort[/b];

Thank you for bearing with me. I wanted to show you why I believe what I do. Do you see how I connect the cross with comfort in God? And why I'm not sure what you mean that the Father is not a 'teddy bear' and would as readily curse [i]NOW[/i] as He has in the past?

Jesus Christ was made a curse and the curse [i][b]for us[/b][/i], as Gery showed from the scripture.

 2005/9/15 13:09

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