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 Re:

Quote:
My advice to all who really care: ask the Father for an opportunity to speak from His Word, led by His Holy Spirit, in the name of His Son and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ: For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them (Eph 2:10). He will provide a way if this is what He has prepared beforehand for you to do. But please ask and pray!

In His Love




Wow, that was great.

Thanks Hans.

God Bless you and your wife. amen.


Annie

 2005/8/27 15:28
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

letsgetbusy said:

Quote:
“Breaking up a meeting is not the way to do it, brother. There are plenty of people walking around. I am a sissy when it comes to witnessing, but I still get out there and do it sometimes. Targeting people during their service makes you look unreasonable, and what we are doing is a reasonable service for Him.”

I would have to respectfully disagree with this statement you have made. I disagree because I don’t want to see you my brother standing before Jesus on the day of Judgment with bloody hands.

1. The Apostles targeted people inside and outside the temples all throughout the book of Acts.

2. If I or you are sitting in a service and the pastor is preaching a false gospel and/or a false Jesus it is our responsibility as a servants of Christ to stand up, openly and publicly confront the pastor and shut him down. If you have the Holy Spirit residing in you, it would be impossible for you to just sit their and listen to Christ be put to open shame and watch these poor souls be deceived. At very least one should stand up in the lobby or parking lot and preach the Truth. Exposing a pastor openly and publicly in front of his congregation as a liar and Scripture twister for preaching a watered down, humanistic, sappy and sugary false Jesus and gospel is not only a good thing, but again it is your responsibility as a servant of Jesus Christ.

3. Would you disagree with the methods of Luther, Huss, Wycliff, Wesley, Foxe, Whitefield or Bunyan? These are the methods of open and public confrontation of which I am talking about.

I want to reiterate that I speak strongly and boldly on such matters, because I love Jesus, His children and the lost and dieing souls of this world who are being deceived and lead down the road to eternal destruction with cleaver lies and enticing philosophies. One can not ever imagine the shrieks and screams of horror of those who think they are going to heaven when the Lord tells them to depart into everlasting darkness and eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. And to think that be the grace of God you were shown the truth but failed to share it with these poor deceived souls and confront the liar and demon disguised as an angel of light they called pastor.

Again I plead with you to ask yourself the questions at the end of the original post with a prayerful heart asking for guidance by the Holy Spirit!


Acts 18:28
28He refuted all the Jews with powerful arguments in public debate. Using the Scriptures, he explained to them, "The Messiah you are looking for is Jesus."


Acts 19:8
Paul Ministers in Ephesus
8Then Paul went to the synagogue and preached boldly for the next three months, arguing persuasively about the Kingdom of God.

Acts 17:17
17He went to the synagogue to debate with the Jews and the God-fearing Gentiles, and he spoke daily in the public square to all who happened to be there.

Acts 18:3-5
4Each Sabbath found Paul at the synagogue, trying to convince the Jews and Greeks alike.

Acts 18:19
19When they arrived at the port of Ephesus, Paul left the others behind. But while he was there, he went to the synagogue to debate with the Jews.

John 18:20
20Jesus replied, "What I teach is widely known, because I have preached regularly in the synagogues and the Temple. I have been heard by people everywhere, and I teach nothing in private that I have not said in public.


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2005/8/27 17:34Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Not in keeping with the rest...

Quote:
I have full confidence that on the day of Judgment there will be many people who had by the grace of God seen the things which are happening to the churches in our day and failed to sound the trumpet or give warning. These people who were blessed by the grace of God with the knowledge of the Truth and failed to stand up against these false teachers and warn the deceived masses will be cast into hell with the blood of other all over their hands.



There is no warrant for this in the New Testament and is a leap to draw a conclusion where there is none stated. To take the example of Ezekiel out of the context and time it was written and apply it now is a wrong application. Don't miss the point. We certainly ought to warn when it is necessary to do so and as the Lord would have us speak. Surely there is a principal there but we cannot make it say what we choose to make it say.

Just as well think the point is emphasized by a couple of other verses in Acts, just prior to the ones you brought forth:

Act 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and [b]were [u]forbidden[/u] of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,[/b]

Act 16:7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia:[b] but the Spirit suffered them not.[/b]

Act 16:8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas.

Act 16:9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, [b]Come over into Macedonia, and help us.[/b]

The Lord may well have you keep silent.

Quote:
2. If I or you are sitting in a service and the pastor is preaching a false gospel and/or a false Jesus it is our responsibility as a servants of Christ to stand up, openly and publicly confront the pastor and shut him down. If you have the Holy Spirit residing in you, it would be impossible for you to just sit their and listen to Christ be put to open shame and watch these poor souls be deceived.



Again, that is a dangerous statement to make. It is not your 'responsibility' as you state, it is the responsibility to obey what the Holy Spirit speaks to your heart in any given moment, and that very well may be to stand up and speak. But you can't make this a blanket statement covering whatever circumstances are at hand.

You could end up doing more harm than good all the while feeling that you have discharged your duty and done nothing to change the hearts and minds of those you are so concerned about.

Came out of much this that you speak of, it is not as cut and dried as you might think. It is very easy to get a caught up in a wrongheaded and opposite reaction:

Referring back to Acts 16:

[i]Twice the Spirit checked the steps of these travelers, and then He directed them to the place of His choosing. "Forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia! This can’t be. The Bible plainly says that we should go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature, so I’m going! I’ll determine where I’ll go and how I’ll get there. God himself has given me a blank check." This, almost needless to say, is a dangerous attitude.

God has indeed given us a general invitation, but the specific fulfilling of it must be directed by the Holy Spirit each step of the way. So many of us are much more responsive to the Spirit when He bids us go than when He calls us to a halt. We want to go, go, go. We want to do great exploits for the Lord, preferably before the eye of the admiring masses. To be dead and hid with Christ in God is not quite as easy to receive, especially when you have been successful in establishing the churches in Asia Minor. If the Holy Spirit can shut your mouth in the very place of your greatest preaching achievements, I would say that He has possession of His vessel.

What kind of spirit would lead a band of God’s men away from the continent of their proven success and point them toward a place where neither their names nor the name of their Lord had ever been heard? Many might say, "That’s not the Spirit of God. That’s the spirit of Satan trying to distract God’s servant, take him away from the field of his greatest use, and send him to some remote place where he’s going to be lost in obscurity. Macedonia? Never!"

Once again, one of the key questions of these end times is raised: how can we determine whether we are being spoken to by the Spirit of God or by the spirit of the evil one? We know that Satan is a vicious counterfeiter, and that his artful attempts to imitate the voice of God have often fooled the Lord’s children. How could Paul and the others know that it was the Holy Spirit keeping them from preaching in the provinces of Asia and Bithynia, and directing them to Macedonia? They knew in the only way that men can: like Elijah before them, they were so familiar with the accents of the still small voice of God that they had not doubt Who was speaking to them.

A man who has that kind of intimacy with the Lord’s voice is one who has been long processed at His hand, one who has known brokenness and the cuttings away of the flesh. It is only by going through these wilderness testings that a true and consistent sensitivity to the things of the Spirit emerges.[/i]

Art Katz
Reality the Hope of Glory


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/8/27 19:47Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

Sorry Mike but I would have to respectively disagree.

I am fully aware that no man is 100% correct in the Biblical, Scriptural and spiritual understanding, so I am open to discuss this matter and open the option that I may be wrong in my opinions on this matter. I feel that you have the same understandings as I in this matter so I look forward to the discussion. I am not afraid or to high on my own pedestal to humble myself and admit that I am wrong when I am wrong, but I have a strong burning for passion for the heart of God and stand bold and firm on His word and the things I feel that he reveals to me through the Scriptures.

I do not think that sounding the trumpet in the face of the eternal wrath of God that at any second (the second of death) will fall upon these countless millions who are deceived and the deceiver who are deceiving them. If we see someone who is deceived or hear someone who is preaching deception it is our responsibility to warn them and to teach them the truth. (I will defer to the great commission)Here are some questions to ponder and pray about.

1. If a pastor see a parishioner living a lifestyle of sin and says nothing about it, do not these verses of Ezekiel apply? Is not the blood of this person on that pastors hands for not giving warning?

2. If you are not the pastor and see a member of the church you attend or a friend or a family member or co-worker being led astray by empty philosophies and false teachings and fail to talk to this person, is not this persons blood upon your hands?

3. What current application of Ezekiel would apply in modern America? Or will no one today appear before God with bloody hands?

4. What would Elijah, Elisha, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Habakkuk, Hosea, Amos, Malachi, John the Baptist, Paul, Peter, John (the revelator), James, Jude, Luther, Huss, Wycliff, Wesley, Foxe, Whitefield, Finney or Bunyan do if they found themselves in the situation we find the church in today?


I fully understand that we must be led by the Holy Spirit in everything we do, but we must not use that use that as an excuse not to preach or do as we are commanded. These are in reference to the Holy Spirit directing the Apostles as to where to go and where to preach not if they should preach. I have heard many use these same Scriptures twisted out of context to relinquish them of their Christ directed responsibility to preach the truth of the gospel to every living creature. Such as “I never shared the gospel with that person because I never felt the Holy Spirit moving me to do so.” This a cop out. You are commanded to share the Gospel and the Truth with every living creature who is in darkness and deception (whether they are in the darkness and deception of Islam, Buddhism, modern American Christianity, Hinduism, Catholicism or Atheism - what darkness and deception they are in is irrelevant - the command to preach the kingdom of heaven and the Truth of Jesus Christ remains the same) and you can not twist and pervert these Scriptures to make them mean something they were never meant to mean!

I understand that at specific times the Holy Spirit say “NO - NOT HERE - NOT NOW” for this has happened to me in the past. I have gone specifically expecting to stand up and speak out and the direction of the Holy Spirit said “NO!”. This of course is the exception and not the norm, since we are commanded to stand bold and firm on the Word of God. We should always seek the guidance and direction of Holy Spirit as to were and when to speak and preach, not if we if are to speak and preach. We are already commanded to do so - we not seek the advise of the Holy Spirit as to if we are to do so, but were and when we are to do so and let the Spirit God lead us were He wants us to go. If you pray that God will lead you through His Holt Spirit were He wants you wants you preach and which pastor he wants you speak out against and what deceived souls He wants you to preach the truth to, I stand on the promises of God that He direct you were He wants you to go. There is no shortage of demonic pastors and deceived congregations, just a shortage of those willing to be lead by the Holy Spirit.

I have no desire to these things of which I speak for they are directly against my personality and my flesh. I am not a sadists thirsting for persecution. I have no desire to be seen and heard, or do great things out of my own flesh, but solely to do the will of God, obey His commands and love Him and His Son with all my heart and soul. I love these people and want these people to be saved (although God has already told me they will not listen) It is terrible to see the things that are happening to the church and see no one standing up against it. If you see these things and do nothing about it, I am under the understanding that the blood of these people will be on your hands on the day of judgment. I not advocating any one go off half cocked, but pray to be lead by the Spirit of God to stand up against those who are content to put Christ to open shame again and again and again and again.

Again I ask all who read this to pray to the Holy Spirit to reveal the answer to the following questions and drive the knife of conviction deep into your heart!

What have I done to reach out to these poor souls who are under this terrible “ear tickling” deception and stand up against the “ear ticklers” who are leading them down the wide path to destruction?

What more could I have done or be doing to reach out to these poor souls who are under this terrible “ear tickling” deception and stand up against the “ear ticklers” who are leading them down the wide path to destruction?

If you were under deception wouldn’t you want someone to preach the truth and reality of Jesus to you? “Do unto others”

Do you love these people enough to tell them the truth? Or are you willing to watch them go to hell and say nothing?

What more could I possibly do to sound the trumpet and ring the alarm?

Will my hands be spotless and clear of the blood of these poor deceived souls in my city or town on the day of judgment?

Not to be redundant, but as so there is no misunderstanding I would like to restate - I am fully aware that no man is 100% correct in the Biblical, Scriptural and spiritual understanding, so I am open to discuss this matter and open the option that I may be wrong in my opinions on this matter. I feel that you (Mike) have the same understandings as I in this matter so I look forward to the discussion. I am not afraid or to high on my own pedestal to humble myself and admit that I am wrong when I am wrong, but I have a strong burning for passion for the heart of God and stand bold and firm on His word and the things I feel that he reveals to me through the Scriptures. The heart of God is burning with anger and fury and wrath for what is happen to the church today and at the same time weeping in heart break and sorrow.

Mike - I am respectful of your position, understand were you are coming from, the concerns you have, your knowledge of Scripture and your heart for God and the truth. I look forward to respectful, bold and provoking discussion and debate.

I love the children of God and don’t want to see anyone of them cast into hell with bloody hands on the day of judgment! REPENT! Be reconciled with God for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand!


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2005/8/27 23:49Profile









 Re:

ChristisKing,

Do you know how many "Discernment Ministries" are out there, trying for years now to put out the word of the Heresies that have come into the Church mostly within the last 30 yr.s or so ?

After my husband and I fought this battle you speak of for 25 years .... Finally, the definition of "HERESY OR HERESIES" came flying out of the Lexicon at us.

Heresy = "The opinion one [b]CHOOSES[/b] for themselves"


You're not alone in your wanting to shout it from the house tops, but you'll find on the Internet, many Shouting and with wonderful documentation and full Scriptural Critiques of these things .... BUT, BUT, BUT .........

If the people didn't "want" this junk, they'd be led out of it, by the Holy Spirit, (IF the Holy Spirit lives in them) because the Holy Spirit is ALWAYS witnessing to truth and giving 'warning inside' of Error.


Jer 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; [u]and my people love to have it so[/u]: and what will ye do in the end thereof ?


I don't know what you believe regarding where we are in the End Times Time Line, but if you ask me or any of the other Discernment or Apologetic ministers or websites out there ... We're in THE APOSTASY.


And I'm afraid to say, I personally believe we are at the point of 2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie ...


We've watched the "Church" these past 30 yr.s become totally unrecognizable. And man, how we've wept and grabbed the horns of the alter, so to speak.

There has to be that weeping and grieving, but then there will come the realisation, of where we are, and only winning souls to Christ, and helping one on one, with what people believe, is what we can do.


If people are in a Church, with a heretic for a Pastor, it's because they WANT TO BE.

If that were not true, then John 16:13 is a blatant lie.


Love you lots brother and feel for where you're at.

Been there - done that. But I believe we are at the time of the end, and only by True Divine leading, will we accomplish anything, like brother Hans and Mike have said.


We all need to pray that our "zeal is with knowledge/wisdom".


But further-most, we need to be sure our own lives are what they should be or need to be, both now and for the days ahead.

100% of our waking hours, should be spent "listening" to Him. Not T.V. or Sports or WHATEVER ....

"THEN", we can hear from God Himself, and not bring out 'mixed cloth' and Then we can make it through all that is coming and lead others to 'true righteousness' and True Truth.


Love you brother,

Not just a housewife neither ;-)

Annie

 2005/8/28 0:53
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Hi Patrick,

From your earlier posting again:

Quote:
These people who were blessed by the grace of God with the knowledge of the Truth and failed to stand up against these false teachers and warn the deceived masses [b]will be cast into hell with the blood of other all over their hands[/b].



And again:

Quote:
I am under the understanding that the blood of these people will be on your hands on the day of judgment.



Again, where is the scriptural warrant? And where do you get this understanding? This is what is being addressed, the going beyond what is written. This is something that is troubling as it becomes a bending or in actuality the same twisting of scripture that we might get all up in arms about when it is of a more overt nature. It is not to be didactic for arguments sake. An example would be from a recent out take from the articles archive here. In it, the preacher talked about a women who had halted at the gospel and later upon becoming sick was rejected by God (so [i]he[/i] said) as she sought the Lord again, the justification being a wrong usage and application of Esau selling his birthright and subsequent rejection of his [i]blessing[/i]. (Heb 12:17 - Gen 27)

Just trying to bring the truth and honesty into what we are proclaiming. There is enough to deal with that we need not go beyond what is written.

The problem grows worse if we are to make this an addition to "[i]Go and make disciples...or else![/i]" Where do we see a requirement of [i]our blood[/i] being required, more so that we could be rejected and be cast into hell for failure to speak? Same with warning the false teachers and prophets, of course we ought to warn, that is besides the point at the moment. Am purposefully concentrating on this aspect as the want is to jump ahead and bring out the justification and then it becomes a case of pragmatism and it just slides on by. We ought not to be known for attempting to make points by skewering things a bit to make that point. Isn't this exactly the same thing we would have trouble with those who are presenting a name-it and claim-it doctrine, to marry text's together to our own liking and to buttress up whatever concoction we have developed in our minds? Surely that is not your attempt nor motivation, but a pause at this 'blood on your hands' needs to be straightened out before moving on to other aspects.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/8/28 1:23Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Now to ask a question, if you are questioning having a RC on the board, how about taking a the question a bit further back. Is having a board biblical?

Would you be as passioinate about that answer as you would be about the credentials of this RC, in regards to church matters?



This is not a church matter. This is a Christian organization which deals with Christian education, with a stated purpose of providing educational options for parents with a Biblical world view. It's completely different.

Since I am of the House Church movement, it should be obvious that I am against a "board" in church government.

Krispy

 2005/8/28 8:40









 Re: WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! BLOODY HANDS!

Dear brother Chrisisking,

Having read your leading post, and crsschk's concerns, I write here to share with you what I 'see' maybe the heart of the matter.

Quote:
The Lord has laid the above Scriptures [b]strong upon [u]my[/u] heart[/b] lately and also a frightening and unthinkable realization. I have full confidence that on the day of Judgment there will be many people who had by the grace of God seen the things which are happening to the churches in our day and failed to sound the trumpet or give warning. These people who were blessed by the grace of God with the knowledge of the Truth and failed to stand up against these false teachers and warn the deceived masses will be cast into hell with the blood of other all over their hands.

In the text you quoted, (Ezekeil 33), which the Lord has laid on [i][b]your[/b][/i] heart, 'the people' were to 'take a man and [i]make[/i] him their watchman' and the watchman was to be a link in a chain, by which ordinarly people would be warned to prepare for the arrival of an enemy army. As long as [i][b]he[/b][/i] carried out what God had instructed, [i][b]his[/b][/i] responsibility would have been discharged, even if [i]no-one[/i] had heeded his warning.

In the twinkling of an eye, you have extrapolated the meaning of this verse out to include [i]everyone[/i] who knows 'the truth' and then you have threatened [i]everyone[/i] with the same fate [i][b]God[/b] [/i] will apply to [b]the[/b] watch[u]man[/u].

I have been careful to read your post for any sign that God has spoken to all of us through you (and He may be speaking to some) but, I believe your mistake is, in forgetting that if everyone is [i]supposed[/i] to be a watchman, [i][b]God Himself[/b][/i] would be calling them (as well).

You yourself may have been deeply shocked if you [i]think[/i] the Holy Spirit is saying the blood of those you could rescue will be on [i]your[/i] hands if you don't [u]sound a warning[/u]. However, be careful. This chapter is clearly written to Israel. God was showing forth a principle.

Fast forward to Matthew 27:

22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is called Christ? They all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
25 [b]Then answered all the people, and said[/b], [u]His blood be on us, [b][i]and[/i][/b] on our children[/u].

This has to be read in conjunction with John 11:

44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, [b]Loose him[/b], [u]and let him go[/u].
45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
46 But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what things Jesus had done.
47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that [b]it is expedient [u]for us[/u], that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not[/b].
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, [b]he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation[/b];
52 And not for that nation only, [b]but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad[/b].
53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.


Do you see the juxtaposition of truth which John accomplishes here, by showing how the raising of Lazarus provoked the final prophetic declaration of Jesus forthcoming death into the ears of the religious leaders of the people. Here, Caiaphas accepts all responsibility, on behalf the WHOLE NATION for the death of Christ.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, [b]but also for the sins of the whole world[/b].


[u]Now[/u], grace is towards each man as an individual and you are responsible for being obedient to the word of God to your heart - no more and no less than anyone else (as they are also individually responsible).

I believe your extrapolation about blood on the hands of those who do not warn [i][b]this[/b][/i] generation of the enemy waiting to devour their souls, is erroneous. The picture goes all the way back to the garden of Eden (when God made them a covering of animal skins) and Noah.

Now, under the New Covenant, Romans 12 operates:

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but [b]be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind[/b], that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, [u]according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith[/u].
4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5 So we, many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
6 Having then [u]gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us[/u]..'


NOW, the challenge to you, personally, is along the lines of being obedient; looking into the example of Christ in this matter of 'warning', and seeking the refining work of the Holy Spirit, that you may be strengthened to do the will of your Father in heaven; listening and watching what He shows you, that you may fulfil the minstry to which you have been called - if indeed you have been called to this ministry of 'watchman'.

 2005/8/28 9:54
LetUsPray
Member



Joined: 2004/10/12
Posts: 173


 Re: WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! BLOODY HANDS!

2 Thessalonians 2:11,12 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness (may be translated as: a deed violating the law, i.e., God’s Word).

1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Three times in the last 15 years did the Lord tell me to confront a Christian pastor about sin and wrong teaching. The last time, a few years ago, I was to publicly speak a word. I prayed the entire day before I reluctantly went to the meeting where I was to give that “word.” I begged the Lord not to have to do it, for it was in the church where I attended and I had many friends. The Lord did not remove the burden and I obeyed.

The Lord has strongly impressed on my heart that the Church is under judgment. The reason why I speak so strong on prayer is that if the Lord is judging an assembly or an entire organization, by having those who attend believe a lie, I would go against Him if I would confront them. I believe that only if one prays as we read in Ezekiel 22:30, 31, as a man standing in the gap before God asking Him not to destroy the people for who we pray, He may use us to confront and allow repentance in that assembly.

If we don’t stand in the gap for the people who sin, we have to be totally certain that we are following the will of God in confronting wrong teaching.

If I would follow my heart, therefore I appreciate your heart brother Patrick, I would be charging against all those whose flock I have met and who don’t know the God of the Bible. People who have been fed “comfortable God loves you” stories, or were told that they would only go to heaven if they belonged to a specific church, etc., etc.

We have to be called by God to speak judgment and rebuke. Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Moses, Jonah, Paul, etc., were all called by God. If God doesn’t call us specifically to speak out against someone or a group of people, we may go against His will. The Bible clearly tells us that our heavenly Father will make those who don’t seek the Giver, but the gifts, or who don’t bother testing the spirits by reading His Word, believe a lie. If God is judging who are we to interfere, except to stand in the gap and pray for His mercy?

In His Love,

Hans Prang
[email protected]
The Father’s Final Call


_________________
Hans Prang

 2005/8/28 13:38Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

I have read all of your comments and appreciate your thoughts regarding this matter. Thank you so much for all of the thoughtfull and heart felt posts and Scriptures.

Dorcas has suggested that I am taking what the Lord is telling me and applying it everyone else. She is correct in this assumption and I appreciate her pointing it out. I can understand that the Lord uses different people for different tasks. (prophet, teacher, preacher, apostle, evangelist) But we must also understand that just because you are a teacher , does not mean you never have to evangelize and so on. If you only teach but never evangelize to anyone, I feel you may not be living up to what God has called us all to do. (I hope this makes sense)

Now I can realize that the harshness and ultimate totality of some of the statements I have in this warning and throughout this post are meant specifically for me and may not apply in the same sense, the same harshness or the same ultimate totality to everyone who reads this post. For this I would like to apologize and correct myself.

With that being said the book of Ezekiel is so amazingly relevant to what is happening today in the church it is shocking that it wasn’t written last week, but thousands of years ago. I think it would do us all good to read through the book of Ezekiel again and learn how God wants a man of God to act in the face of such things among His people. The same is true with Jeremiah, Isaiah and the rest of the major and minor prophets. It is amazing how these last books of the Old Testament echo so exactly what is happening today. It would be a benefit for everyone to read through these books and see how God uses, instructs and expects men who are after His heart to act and behave in the face of such things. We can not forget that we must not only be hearers of the Word but doers of the Word. We have a lot of hears but very few doers. Also - All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. This apply to the books major and minor prophets especially in light of how they echo the situation we find ourselves faced with in the church today. I would again call anyone who is concerned with what is going on in the church today to read the books of the major and minor prophets and see how God instructs, expects and teaches those who are after His heart to act in the face of such things.

“If are in need of any type of prophet today it is the Old Testament type that we are lacking and in need of” Leonard Ravenhill

Again I would like to say and thank Docus for pointing out following - I can realize that the harshness and ultimate totality of some of the statements I have made in this warning and throughout this post are meant specifically for me and may not apply in the same sense, the same harshness or the same ultimate totality to everyone who reads this post.

But the questions I have asked are still applicable to everyone to some degree or another. The Holy Spirit is able to and will let you know to what degree these thing and this warning applies to you. I am sure their are many who need to asks these questions and seek guidance as to the answers from the Holy Spirit. So I make the same plea as I have made in my previous posts - PLEASE ask yourself the following question with honesty and pray that God through His Holy Spirit will lay upon your heart the truth to these questions.

1. If a pastor see a parishioner living a lifestyle of sin and says nothing about it, do not these verses of Ezekiel apply? Is not the blood of this person on that pastors hands for not giving warning?

2. If you are not the pastor and see a member of the church you attend or a friend or a family member or co-worker being led astray by empty philosophies and false teachings and fail to talk to this person, is not this persons blood upon your hands?

3. What current application of Ezekiel would apply in modern America? Or will no one today appear before God with bloody hands?

4. What would Elijah, Elisha, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Habakkuk, Hosea, Amos, Malachi, John the Baptist, Paul, Peter, John (the revelator), James, Jude, Luther, Huss, Wycliff, Wesley, Foxe, Whitefield, Finney or Bunyan do if they found themselves in the situation we find the church in today?

5. What have I done to reach out to these poor souls who are under this terrible “ear tickling” deception and stand up against the “ear ticklers” who are leading them down the wide path to destruction?

6. What more could I have done or be doing to reach out to these poor souls who are under this terrible “ear tickling” deception and stand up against the “ear ticklers” who are leading them down the wide path to destruction?

7. What more could I possibly do to sound the trumpet and ring the alarm? (for the kingdom of heaven is at hand and the wrath of God is poised to strike)

8. Will my hands be spotless and clear of the blood of these poor deceived souls in my city or town on the day of judgment?

9. If you were under deception wouldn’t you want someone to preach the truth and reality of Jesus to you? “Do unto others”

10. Do you love these people enough to tell them the truth? Or are you willing to watch them go to hell and say nothing?

I understand that some may disagree but I feel that one of the most un-reached segments of the population with the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the modern American “Christian”. Sure they have all heard “a gospel“, but literally millions have never heard “The Gospel”. Just because they have heard and believe “a gospel“, does that mean we shouldn’t preach to them “The Gospel”?

The Lord has burdened my heart for these lost people and I apologize if I have over stated the harshness and totality of the warning I have received to include everyone. But please pray that God will reveal to you what extent it applies to you. I believe there will many on the day of judgment who stand before God with bloody hands. I just don’t want that to be you my friend.


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2005/8/28 17:53Profile





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