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 Time to disagree, sister lastblast

and I do it respectfully, but you wrote:

Quote:
'The intellectual leader of the movement is Brian McLaren...And in his latest book, "The Last Word and the Word After That," McLaren questions the existence of hell.'

That's really all we should have to read.



I would take umbrage with those who say McLaren is the theological leader of the emergent church or "po-mo" church (post-modern)

Some might say Leonard Sweet is

http://www.leonardsweet.com/


some might say that Dan Kimball up at Vintage Faith church is one of the theological lightening rods of the emergent church

http://www.vintagechurch.org/

Dan Kimbal clearly explains what Vintage Faith church is about, and it sounds full Gospel to me, as well as other writings he has done:

http://www.vintagechurch.org/about.php

Doug Padgitt of Solomon's porch might also be called an intellectual heavyweight in the emergent church:

http://www.solomonsporch.com/


In Los Angeles here, we have a brother named Erwin Raphael McManus, who heads up a church, a faith community called Mosaic (http://www.mosaic.org/) Erwin has a book out called "The Barbarian Way" and he's angered quite a few "evangelicals". (Praise God I'm evangelical in holistic Gospel outlook, but please please don't EVER call me an "evangelical") Erwin's angered people because he has said, ""The greatest enemy to the movement of Jesus Christ is Christianity." I agree with him wholeheartedly. He also said ,

Quote:
"Somewhere along the way the movement of Jesus Christ became civilized as Christianity. We created a religion using the name of Jesus Christ and convinced ourselves that God's optimal desire for our lives was to insulate us in a spiritual bubble where we risk nothing, sacrifice nothing, lose nothing, worry about nothing. I wonder how many of us have lost our barbarian way and have become embittered with God, confused in our faith because God doesn't come through the way we think He should."


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0785264329/104-4221942-8746351?v=glance

Let me say this, every one of these brothers who I mentioned are leading lights within the emergent church, and every one of these brothers is FULL GOSPEL, sold out born again followers of Jesus. They might look like you, or vote for the same politicians, but they're Full Gospel.

 2005/8/25 17:27









 Quick question Greg

Quote:
I was just reading about true preaching that John Wesley said either they will be angry with you or accept the gospel, and so it is when we preach the true gospel not an "Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life gospel".



Greg, I am no fan of the various "prosperity gospels", but seeing as Jesus so desires an intimate relationship with His children, and that He DOES love us, and any Father DOES want the best for His children, what would be UNTRUE about Jesus loving us AND having a wonderful plan for our lives?

In juxtaposition , what WOULD be the "true" Gospel?

I ask this respectfully.

I see the emergent church as a good thing and a God thing.

 2005/8/26 0:17









 Re: Quick question Greg

Quote:
what would be UNTRUE about Jesus loving us AND having a wonderful plan for our lives?



I think Jesus does has a wonderful plan for our lives. However, many use this as the motivation for people to get saved. "Come to Jesus... He has a wonderful plan for your life".

While a true statement, the unsaved person often times comes forward without a real sense of shame and conviction over their state as a sinner who is bound for hell. They often times do not realize that before God they are a wretch without Jesus blood covering all their sins. Instead, they are coming to Christ because He can make my life better. Many times the situations in our lives GET WORSE by world standards. And I believe that when people come forward under those conditions... and their lives dont get better (in their eyes) they abandon their faith. They may feel like they've been sold a bill of goods.

I think the statistics bear witness to that.

Krispy

 2005/8/26 8:27









 Re: emergent movement

Quote:
While a true statement, the unsaved person often times comes forward without a real sense of shame and conviction over their state as a sinner who is bound for hell. They often times do not realize that before God they are a wretch without Jesus blood covering all their sins. [b]Instead, they are coming to Christ because He can make my life better. Many times the situations in our lives GET WORSE by world standards[/b]. And I believe that when people come forward under those conditions... and their lives dont get better (in their eyes) they abandon their faith. They may feel like they've been sold a bill of goods.

The bit that is missing here, is the acknowledgement sinners need proclaimed to them, that God intends [i]also[/i] to heal them from sins committed against them. Unless their healing is presented hand in hand with the injunction to forgive, as they have been forgiven, they are lacking in an essential faculty.

If, as you read the gospels, you watch out for not only the mentions that Jesus 'healed them all', but also pick up the impression of the many multitudes whose [u]individual members[/u] He healed, it is possible to 'see' this aspect of the gospel as indispensible.

In the absence of its being preached in full completeness, 'people' are not necessarily able to understand how to differentiate between their causes of distress. Jesus Christ must be presented as the answer to it all, but, discerning the division between personal guilt and the guilt of others.

One of the reasons people fall away and do not immediately have strength to 'pick up' their cross, is this deep lack of inner health. 'Healing' has been made into a spectator sport in some Christian circles, where nothing could be further from God's heart.

While, therefore, Christians remain weak through lack of healing, of course they will fall away when things 'get worse', because they have not been [i]strengthened[/i] by the Life of Jesus Christ, even if they have understood His death.

 2005/8/27 20:07









 Re:

I never heard of this 'movement' before and just read all your postings and the first orginal [url=http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050820/NEWS/508200328/1021]article[/url]

Here is a quote from it. "He wrote in "A Generous Orthodoxy" that all people did not have to convert to Christianity to be followers of Jesus, that they could "become Jewish or Hindu followers of Jesus." He also raised Baptist hackles by dodging a question on gay marriage. He said the issue "breaks my heart . . . that there's no way I can answer it without hurting someone on either side.""

Small groups where you refine each others thinkings and Conforming to the world are TWO TOTALLY DIFFERENT THINGS.

There is no 'true' structure of this 'movement' because its not a solid 'denomination' but a movement (just like the Vineyard). They have an outline of the way things go, but every church can be different but all in all you should exspect the same results. I'm not against a 'movement' cause im in one but it can be dangerous if the pastor/clergy isn't Godly and always seeking His will 24/7. Just like any church.

 2005/9/2 12:41
mshelby
Member



Joined: 2004/8/18
Posts: 15


 Re: Emergent movement

I am just curious how they actually bring a person to a saving faith in Christ? For lack of a better term, what "method" do they use?

I just have an awful picture in my mind of someone saying "Well, I really enjoy the friendship and they coffee... but you all seem to have something in your life that I don't. You know... You just seem more 'complete.'
Then someone pipes up and say's yeah man, I know just what you mean. I felt the same way. Kind of "lost," you know? Then I "asked Jesus to come and take-over my life and I have never felt better."

Then of course comes the group pow-wow, followed by the group-hug, followed by group-tears, wrapped up with group-light-hearted meaningless chit-chat to ease the tension of the moment.

No mention of sin, righteousness or judgement... another future backslider created! Yikes!

No thanks. I think I want my loved ones to actually go to a church where Christ and Him Crucified is preached.


_________________
Mark Shelby

 2005/9/4 4:59Profile





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