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Nellie
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Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Re:

Amen, Greg.
God Bless you.
Nellie :-)

 2005/8/25 11:05Profile
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
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 Re:

Quote:
There is something called an 'Alpha course' in the UK, which has been very successful in introducing young adults to Christ. The course has been adapted for specialist use, too. It goes so far as to invite complete strangers (who sign up) to a meal every week, followed by discussion groups. There are no 'no go' areas of disbelief or apathy towards God, because the people that come are not to be pressurised into choosing to make a commitment to Christ. However, over a third of any one course, usually do. These people become proper Christians and are invited back to church and to a Beta course.


I am not saying that God hasn't and [b]is[/b] using the alpha course sister dorcas, but frankly where do you find the in the book of Acts the "alpha" course. This is the problem that of much of evangelical Christianity with its vocubulary and uses are not biblical.

Sure we are being effective to some degree but wouldn't it be grand to get back to the way the apostles did it? The emergent church I feel is not going this way at all but rather under the guise of trying to be more biblical and apostolic it is catering to the needs and wants of man.

I was just reading about true preaching that John Wesley said either they will be angry with you or accept the gospel, and so it is when we preach the true gospel not an "Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life gospel".


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/8/25 11:12Profile
taco
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Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re:

Quote:
... where do you find the in the book of Acts the "alpha" course.



Without saying that the Alpha course is the best material in the world I would say that it falls under the category of "making disciples of all nations". You won't find in the book of Acts any Bible colleges, sunday schools, church buildings...etc etc. This doen't necessarily mean that people who use these things are not following the apostles doctrine or tradition (although of course there are many who do that don't ;-)).

 2005/8/25 11:27Profile









 Re: a few more thoughts on the emergent movement

Wow... news alert!! There is a lot that Neil wrote that I absolutely agree with! (Way to go, Neil!)

Quote:
There are three elements of corporate worship that I really would love to see at the church I call home.

1. Seating in the round.
I would love to see churches move to this model where everyone has to actually LOOK at others, instead of the back of heads.

2. To borrow the "worship-sharing" model from the Quakers. That means a meeting would be this:

as the Spirit leads, you share with the group, whether it be Scripture, a testimony, a praise report, a prayer request, anything AS THE HOLY SPIRIT leads. as I undestand it, the rule is that only one person may speak at a time, there must be a space of silence between two people speaking, and no one may speak twice until all have had a turn. at a house church in Topanga, we were blessed enough to try this, and it was a most blessed meeting.

3. the Agape or love feast as a every Lord's day occurence. That the church make a meal together, and break bread together after every Sunday service. This to me is crucial. To eat together is a powerful elemental communal experience, it's a love thing, it's a Jesus thing.



Amen amen amen...

And Neil also said:

Quote:
I would never be part of an assembly that would consider joining a denomination like the Presbyterian church of the USA...or Episcoplian...these two demoninations do two things that are just an ANATHEMA to any Spirit-filled follower of Jesus......stand for abortion andforthe ordination of gay priests.

those are no-go's!! absolutely non-negoatible.



Just a note, we do seperate on the Iraq issue. Not sure what that has to do with the topic, but thats ok. It connects for Neil, but not for me.

ANYWAY... as long as a particular "emergent movement" church adheres to Biblical doctrine, I dont have an issue with the style of service they have. In fact, it seems to run very closely to what those of us in the House Church movement practice. The only difference is they are a little bigger and meet in buildings other than homes.

Anything can get off course doctrinally. House churches, denominations, independent churches, etc. Each fellowship needs to be looked at autonomously. I cant say all Methodist churches are apostate... that would not be true. I know of some that are right on, and I know some that make me wonder why they bother to consider themselves Christians.

I personally welcome this style of church. It sounds a bit like how the 1st century church met. These folks were poor for the most part... so dressing in their "sunday best" probably didnt happen. The church in China, perhaps one of the strongest and most faithful churches in the world, meets in caves, homes, barns... where ever they can. They dont concern themselves with fancy dress and big buildings. Only in the materialistic West do Christian get caught up in the meaningless trappings.

Krispy


 2005/8/25 11:44









 Re: emergent church

Quote:

sermonindex wrote: I am not saying that God hasn't and [b]is[/b] using the alpha course sister dorcas, but frankly where do you find the in the book of Acts the "alpha" course. [b]This is the problem that of much of evangelical Christianity with its vocubulary and uses are not biblical[/b].

The alpha thing is called a course because it systematically covers Biblical concepts and offers answers from the Bible for common questions, enquirers have.

Quote:
Sure we are being effective to some degree but wouldn't it be grand to get back to the way the apostles did it?

I'd be interested to hear more about how the apostles' methods could be put into practise, as you see it.

I'm aware that 'techniques' are often taught and tried for short spells as part of missionary training, but even the apostles abode generally within their cultural boundaries. Until a man or a family sets out to continue for months or years, it is not a real comparison.


Quote:
The emergent church I feel is not going this way at all but rather under the guise of trying to be more biblical and apostolic it is catering to the needs and wants of man.

There are many men of the older generation (pre 1960s), who [i]knew[/i] they were dissatisfied spiritually. These continued seeking till they found. They left a whole range of denominations, seeking a closer walk with God, till they found it. I agree the truth needs to be preached, but the seeker also has a responsibility to save his own soul.

Quote:
I was just reading about true preaching that John Wesley said either they will be angry with you or accept the gospel, and so it is when we preach the true gospel not an "Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life gospel".

Yeah! Couldn't agree more. That didn't do much good to anyone. Just for the record, that doesn't happen in an alpha setting, which is more in keeping with Acts 19:9 - But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, [b]he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus[/b].

 2005/8/25 12:47
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Is this it

Hi GregG,

Would this fit into an 'Alpha type' environment?
4Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.
Acts 18:4 Is that not what Aplpha is about 'reasoning' with people?


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/8/25 13:07Profile









 Re: Is this it

There is an ecumenical side to the Alpha Course movement that is unsettling to me.

Krispy

 2005/8/25 13:15
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

The Alpha course can (not always) limit churches from evangelizing the lost. First of all, not everyone goes to Alpha, and secondly, the congregation feels that because they have the Alpha course, their church is doing their evangelistic duty and nothing more is required of them. Sorry, but one thing that bugs me terribly is people who sit comfortably in the pews feeling fat, content, with no unction to share the gospel. They are glad they don't have to because it gets their feet wet. Thus, they have a video screen do the work.

I am not bashing Alpha. Praise God for the souls that have been brought to Christ. I just am angry when it becomes EVANGELISM.


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Eli Brayley

 2005/8/25 13:35Profile
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

If Jesus came to every church in North America, do you think this would happen:

He would shake hands with the greeters. Sit in the pew, sing the songs, listen to the sermon, and have coffee after. I bet you few people would even know He was there that Sunday.

What do you think He would think of our churches? I'd like to hear what Jesus has to say about the emergent church, the baptist church, the pentecostal church, etc... I gather that we'd all be shocked. Would He even say: [i]"I don't feel welcome, it's not my kind of church"[/i]???


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Eli Brayley

 2005/8/25 13:39Profile
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
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 Re:

I think an article by brother Jesse Morrell speaks abit to the dangerous prones of this sort of ministry in our day:

[b]The Church of the Comfortable and Tolerant[/b]

Once upon a time in the land called Feel Good there was a Church. This new Church was called "The Church of the Comfortable and Tolerant". Very recently this Church hired a new Pastor, Pastor Peace Keeper, who just graduated from the Seminary of Smooth Talking.

The congregation "of the Comfortable and Tolerant" loved the new Pastors sermons. Some of their favorites were "God is happy with everyone", "Everything is fine and dandy", and "There is nothing but good times ahead".

Pastor Peace Keeper once made a terrible mistake. He wrongfully allowed Mr. Conscience into the pulpit. Mr. Conscience did nothing but called human mistakes "sins" and called the good folks of the congregation to "repent". Because Mr. Conscience had never been properly trained and instructed at The Seminary of Smooth Talking he did not know that he wasn't supposed to talk about "those things". The congregation of the Comfortable and Tolerant were shocked at Mr. Conscience’s audacity and arrogance. They said things among themselves like "who does this self-righteous legalist think he is coming and talking to us like that! Why should we allow this false preacher among us any longer to continue to persecute us?"

Pastor Peace Keeper terribly regretted letting Mr. Conscience into the pulpit. Mr. Conscience has betrayed the trust he had with the Pastor. So Pastor Peace Keeper asked Mr. Conscience to please leave the church, he was not welcome there any longer. Everyone was happy that Mr. Conscience was asked to leave, except one member called Holy Spirit. So Holy Spirit and Mr. Conscience left together and after awhile nobody even noticed that they were gone.

Once things were back to normal, the way they had always been, everyone was happy once again in the land called Feel Good. Pastor Peace Keeper continued to sugar coat sweet and wonderful lies that made everyone comfortable in their sins and heavily guarded his pulpit from abrasive truths. Who could blame him? You see, the Pastor loved his new home, his new church, and of course he loved his new income. He couldn't put such precious things on the line! So he absolutely guaranteed that "The Church of the Comfortable and Tolerant" were as satisfied and as happy as they possibly could be while they sat in their complacency.

They lived the rest of their days happily ever after, that is, until they were finally cast into hell.

The point: Rather then preparing the way of the Lord and making His paths straight, preachers are removing the bumps in the road to hell to make it as comfortable as possible for those who travel on them. The backslidden church utterly refused to remove the log out of her own eye and therefore also utterly refuses to remove anything from anyone else's eye. She vehemently opposes those who try to do so also. God help those who attempt to clean up the church and the world! Joseph Parks said it best: "The man whose little sermon is 'repent' sets himself against his age, and will...be battered mercilessly by the age whose moral tone he challenges. There is but one end for such a man. 'Off with his head!" You had better not try to preach repentance until you have pledged your head to heaven."


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2005/8/25 14:46Profile





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