This is the answer I have been waiting for:
letsgetbusy said it best: "We win souls because the Word is being moved through us."

The bible is just a book without the Spirit. It is text on a page. It says nothing and means nothing without the Spirit of God.

This is two fold. Yes, God used His Spirit to write the bible through humans. Additionally, the bible contains a message that cannot be understood by anyone who does not have the Spirit. And even of those who do, they will misinterpret the scripture if they seek to understand it by thier own knowledge, rather than seeking help from the Spirit. Only the Spirit can understand things of the Spirit.

The Word of God is not a book, it is the Spirit. God speaks through more than just the bible. For generations, even before the times of the bible, God has been speaking through humans. He has called prophets and servants. Some of these were told to write down thier prophecies and texts into a book we now call the bible.

Thus, the bible is not the only source of God's Word. He speaks through prophets, preachers, and humans of our day as well. For those who walk with the Spirit and who sacrifice thier will to God, He speaks through them as well.

Some of you have turned the bible into an idol. Some of you worship the bible as if it were God Himself. It is not. The bible is just a book. Some call the bible the Word of God in such a manner to elevate it's authority above Christ. Christ is supreme. Some of you try to read the bible and argue over the text without first seeking after the Spirit.

The Word of God is Christ, and the basis for all other things is upon Christ. As Christians, we are to place our trust and faith in Christ. We are followers of Christ our Lord. He is our Lord. By this, we should submit unto Him and seek after His counsel.

Some of you though, would rather trust men, knowledge, and academics. Some of you seek after truth by looking into history. Rather than turn to Christ in Heaven, you are seeking after your own logical reasoning of the scriptures. Rather than give into the Spirit, you seek to discern the bible for yourselves. You even teach by your own opinions and deny the power of the Spirit.

When you do this, you turn the bible into a book of law. You say, "This is what the bible says, and it cannot be any other way." You do not accept that your interpretation could be wrong. Rather, you use the bible to leverage your own desires. You turn it into law, and just like the Pharisees, you use it to promote your own ideas in order to benefit your own righteousness rather than trusting in Christ.

Seek after Christ and He will direct your path!!!

The bible is a tool for teaching and preaching. It bears a message that God will plant and spread throughout the world by means of His Spirit. The bible is not a book of law by which to judge or condemn the world. It does not bear laws that you can force on people.

Do you not know that Christ set us free from the law? He set us free from the bondage of the law so that we may worship God freely in love. He set us free so we would not "have" to follow the law of God, but rather, we would follow God's law out of love. For anyone who tries to turn the bible back into a book of law is foolish. They are seeking to return to a state of slavery and bondage. They are taking God's grace and giving it back to Him. Christ set us free so that we can love. Let us love each other in mercy, grace, forgiveness, and fellowship.

Do not be mistaken, the message the bible bears by the power of the Holy Spirit (the Word of God) is Holy. The bible bears the Word of God. The bible BEARS the Word of God. It is a testimony to Christ. It is not Christ. The bible is NOT GOD. It bears witness to Christ. The bible is not the Word, rather it bears testament to the Word.

The Holy Spirit is the Living Word of God. It is alive. It flows. The Spirit flows through the text of the bible into the hearts of believers. The bible does not just speak in one way. It speaks to different people in different ways. The bible cannot be used as a standard of law by which to judge others. God speaks to each person's heart in accord to His will. The Lord is our Lord and He directs His children in accord to His will.

What does this mean?

The Holy Spirit is without error. However, you and I, all of humanity is with error. We can misinterpret the bible. There are whole religions that have formed over misinterpretations of the bible that have misunderstood the message. It is vitally important that we humble ourselves before the Spirit and seek after Christ in all things. Before we read the bible, we should pray. We should always ask Christ to show us truth. Or else, the Devil will deceive us.

When we share scripture with others we should be humble. We should accept the possibility that we are wrong. Only Christ is right. Do not think you are right. Do not be so prideful to label someone else as false. How do you know you aren't misinterpreting the scripture? How do you know Christ is not trying to speak to you? Be open to what others have to say, and have a teachable Spirit. Is that not wise? Is that not what we should do?

The bible was written by humans. They are faulty. It was not written word for word from God. If it was, the bible would not exist in any other language or any other version. When God wrote out the ten commandments with His own fingers, they were Holy and preserved in the ark. The bible is not preserve in an ark. It is not sealed. The bible is written in many languages with many versions. There is no authoritative bible. The four gospels are in agreement, however, they are not exact. They are from four different witnesses to Christ.

God wants His children to walk in faith. He wants people to worship Him, and Him alone. Even the bible must be trusted in faith. We must first trust in Christ, then we can turn to the bible and learn of the Spirit as it stirs in us. All things come from Christ.

This is the message Christ laid on my heart to share with all of you. Let us turn to Christ and follow Him.

Blake

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Blake Kidney

Wo!!!

OK, You are telling us, to follow Jesus only and the Holy Spirit Only.

In that case, I would like to know, who gave you the authority to say this and all the against, the Bible things you have said.

I have read your written word. and now I am going also ask you:

Who are you.
What are you.
What Church or whatever, do you attend.
What exactly is the faith, that you are in.

I would need to know the answers to these questions, so that I would know where you are comeing from in your Faith. As this might enable me to understand what you are saying and to look further at the things you have written.


ellie

WOW!!!!!!
It is astounding how many people are popping up on this site to let us all know just how theologically out to lunch we all are... WOW, thank you for helping getting my head back on straight beenblake. ( This post is probably not inspired.)
lol Greg ;-)
I just had to come back and add an edit: I have to suggest that you read 2 Timothy 3:15-17 ( I know it likely has NO weight of authority with you) and pray for insight. If you do not look to the scripture for insight/wisdom, how do you know that the spirit you follow is holy? ( 1 John 4:1-3):-?

_________________
Greg

Hi blake,

Well, you had us going for a while, not knowing what you thought about The Bible.

I still ask, do you think it is Inerrant ? ... but I think you answered that, towards the end of your post. It appears you don't.

I can't hit each paragragh, point for point, it's waaaay past my bedtime, but some points I must say are true and some are so dangerously wrong, that I'm taken back by them.

My favorite verse, that most everybody knows by now is John 16:13, and you alluded to that in parts of your post.

But, other parts have said, that we can depend on prophets, just as well as the Word,,, the Written Word I mean.

On that, I must say, NOPE, Not unless what they say is "tested" against the Scriptures.

The only reason people come up with their own interpretations, is because "THEY WANT TO".

That is what God has said, when HE defined "heresies" as "the opinion one has 'chosen' for themselves as in, their 'Choice' "

Or that they were not trained to do Contextual, exegetical, or hermenuetical study or just use "intellectual" understanding, rather than leaning on the Spirit of Truth, for Truth.


But God will never - ever say anything through any Prophet or other spokesman, that is "extra-biblical", or that contradicts the Scriptures.

That is where many of the latest & oldest cults got started, by some "prophet" who got a "New Revelation", that no one can find in the Word.

Jesus left us His Words, in that "Book" ... and don't lower it's absolute necessity by saying "the Holy Spirit" is the Word of God ... because, NO, Jesus is/was The Logos.

The Holy Spirit is in us, to interpret the Word of God, IF-IF, we depend on Him whole-heartedly.
But not to take the place of ... God forbid that you should imply such a thing ... or that it was "written only by faulty men".

You've gone a bit over board on the Holy Spirit here, and I'm sure many would be surprised that even I would say that, because I say John 16:13 so often.

I mean you no harm Blake, nor think your intentions are for evil, but the Holy Spirit's job, (for one), is to "lead us into ALL truth" ... but He does it BY the Word... never contradicting it.

A first hand experience with Christ, is necessary,,, I agree ... but even that experience, will give an even greater reverence for His Word.... The Scriptures, IF it indeed was an Experience with THE Christ. (There's plenty of "experiences & voices" out there, to deceive ... that's why God left a BOOK, to "TEST" these "experiences or 'words' " against THE WORD.

Yes, Jesus is The Word made flesh, He was the Word or Logos, before His incarnation and He will return to earth, being called The Word of God ... The Logos again... but He still left us a book, inspired by His Holy Spirit, through the pens of those that HE chose.

And lastly, I haven't seen one person on this forum, preaching "The Law", yet.

I pray the Lord refine your thinking on this subject, because you do have some positives in there, but the negatives blow those positives into the ocean.


If you 'do' listen to "Him", stay open to the relevance, absolute necessity, and Holiness of the Scriptures, as our only 'road-map', that the Holy Spirit was given to 'open' to us ... not replace it.

It 'will' be one of the Books, opened on Judgment Day, that we 'will' be judged by.


Praying for you in His Love.


Annie

Beenblake... one of the first posts you ever contributed to this forum was a public accusation against me, telling me that I was being judgemental.

Allow me to quote from your most recent post:

[i]"Some of you have turned the bible into an idol. Some of you worship the bible as if it were God Himself. It is not. The bible is just a book. Some call the bible the Word of God in such a manner to elevate it's authority above Christ. Christ is supreme. Some of you try to read the bible and argue over the text without first seeking after the Spirit."[/i]

How do you know this? How is it that you are able to judge the hearts and motives of other men... especially those you've never met?

[i]"Some of you though, would rather trust men, knowledge, and academics. Some of you seek after truth by looking into history. Rather than turn to Christ in Heaven, you are seeking after your own logical reasoning of the scriptures. Rather than give into the Spirit, you seek to discern the bible for yourselves. You even teach by your own opinions and deny the power of the Spirit."[/i]

Really? How do you know?

[i]"You say, "This is what the bible says, and it cannot be any other way.""[/i]

You got me there... I do! (And dont look for an apology for it anytime soon)

[i]"You do not accept that your interpretation could be wrong."[/i]

Speaking only for myself... I have admitted over and over that I can be wrong, and am open to being taught here.

[i]"and just like the Pharisees, you use it to promote your own ideas in order to benefit your own righteousness rather than trusting in Christ."[/i]

You say this... but give no examples. I havent seen anyone doing this.

[i]"We should accept the possibility that we are wrong."[/i]

This doesnt jive with the overall tone of your post.

[i]"Do not be so prideful to label someone else as false."[/i]

You and I have been around this one before... and you do not believe ANYONE should ever be labeled as false. Rank heresy in the church doesnt seem to bother you... only people who stand up against it... like the Apostle Paul.

[i]The bible was written by humans. They are faulty. It was not written word for word from God. If it was, the bible would not exist in any other language or any other version. When God wrote out the ten commandments with His own fingers, they were Holy and preserved in the ark. The bible is not preserve in an ark. It is not sealed. The bible is written in many languages with many versions. There is no authoritative bible. The four gospels are in agreement, however, they are not exact. They are from four different witnesses to Christ.[/i]

You should have just posted this paragraph and saved yourself the hand cramps from writing all the rest, because this is the crux of your post. You do not believe that the Bible inerrant. You do not trust the Bible. You do not believe that God has preserved His Word, as I believe He promised to do in Psalms.

If thats the truth... then lets all throw away our Bibles and have a group hug... sing We Are The World... and do whatever we want. After all, how can we know what God wants and expects from us?

Interesting to note that you use not ONE scripture to back your position. And I have noticed that in any discussions I have had with you you have NOT ONCE referred me to any scripture.

You come on here, accuse me of judging, and then write this post judging just about everyone on this site... and then declare that the Bible is full of faults and can not be trusted. I'll probably get in trouble for this... but you are being hypocritical.

Krispy

P.S. I will give you credit for the little bit of truth that was in your post. But thats how false [b]teachings[/b] are... little bit of truth mixed with error. It's very deceptive.

By the way... you judged me publicly for daring to challenge Bruce Metzger's teachings. In your earlier post on this thread you said:

I have no authority. I am nothing. I am not even worth the words I write. I also have nothing to prove to any of you. I am not going to give my resume because you will judge me. That is what you seek to do.

The Lord gave me this message to write. He told me to tell it to all of you. There is nothing in it that contradicts scripture. Although some of you will argue this.

You do not understand because you choose not to understand. God is not the author of confusion. He does not deliver mixed messages. However, some of you read the bible as though you were the author. You read it and think you know exactly what God wrote and what He was trying to say.

I admit to you now that I do not know. I have much to learn myself, and if I have said anything wrong, then the Lord who is my Lord will correct me. He will judge me accordingly for He is my judge. He alone.

However, I do not take credit for any of this. The Lord has a message for some person or people on here. I do not know who. I only pray that person or those people will open thier heart and listen.

God Bless

_________________
Blake Kidney

Dear Annie Grannie,

I do not think we are in disagreement.

You are right in saying that God is not the author of confusion and always speaks in agreement. He would not guide one speaker such as the apostle Paul to say one thing, then guide another like a preacher of today to say another.

However, what we must realize is that there are two parts to this. First of all, the Holy Spirit delivers a message unto a man (or woman) to deliver. This person has free will and at any time may choose to deny God. If this was not true, then all preachers would speak exactly the same, with the exact words of God. However, we know that throughout history, men have preached different messages. The apostle Paul even corrected the apostle Peter who was filled with the Spirit. No man is perfect except for Christ.

Secondly, the Holy Spirit then must help a person to read and understand the message being delivered. When we read the bible, we can easily misinterpret it. God is not the author of confusion, however, just because we think we know what the bible says, does not mean we are wrong. Many times, people read bible verses out of context. They read just a line of scripture and then try to use that text to prove thier point. If I did this, I could prove anything.

I once had a woman tell me that her sins would be paid for with death, and that she didn't need grace, all because she read "for the wages of sin is death."

Do you see, then, that we must first be open to the Holy Spirit to guide and direct us as we read the bible? If we try to read it without Jesus, we could read anything we wish.

There people who read the bible and turn it into authority. Now, if we assume the bible is all authority, then we must obey it like a book of law. We must treat every command as a law. Paul said in Romans that we are to submit unto authority. We are to submit unto government. If this is true, then we should never rebel against any authority. We should never protest.

Do you think men like Luther and Tyndale who protested against the authority of the Catholic Church would have accepted this?

If the bible is the authoritative "Word of God" as so described, then Tyndale and Luther were hypocrites and anyone who follows them would be hypocrites too. However, we know this is NOT true.

We know the Holy Spirit lead these men to translate the bible so that we may all read the bible. At the time, the bible was so revered, they would not translate it into another language. When Luther and Tyndale translated the bible, they "altered" the words, and were judged because of it.

Back then, people turned the Church into the supreme authority. They gave it more authority than the Spirit. People today are doing the same with the bible. They are trusting more in thier own interpretation of the bible than they are in Jesus.

God wants us to walk in faith. We must trust in Jesus. He directs us to His spoken word that flows through the Spirit.

I am not saying we reject the bible or it's teachings. However, we have no place to give our own interpretation of the scriptures more authority than Christ.

_________________
Blake Kidney

My dear Krispy,

"If thats the truth... then lets all throw away our Bibles and have a group hug... sing We Are The World... and do whatever we want. After all, how can we know what God wants and expects from us?"

Christ set us free from the law. We do not "have" to obey it. We are not forced into obeying the law. In fact, God's grace is sufficient to save any sinner no matter what the sins. He saved the apostle Paul who murdered Christians, did He not?

Even after Paul was saved, He still sinned. Paul admitted to a thorn in his side. However, God said to Paul His grace is sufficient.

You see, if you think we "have" to obey the law of God, then you missed the whole point of grace. God's grace was made available so that we could obey the law with pure hearts out of love.

At first, the law was given. We were forced to obey it. If we didn't obey the law, we did not have life. We were forced to love God. Our love was based upon rewards. It is like this, if you do what God says and do what is good, you goto Heaven. If you don't, you goto Hell. This sort of thinking says you are saved by works, by what you can do for God, rather than what God can do for you.

However, Jesus died to set us free from the law. He died to give us grace. By this, our goal is not to seek reward. We don't do good things to get into Heaven. We don't follow the law to get blessings from the Lord. That is not true love.

True love comes when we willingly give our best without seeking anything in return. True love comes when we say to God, "Whether I goto Heaven or Hell, I still love you." True love says, "Lord, I want to obey your law because I love you."

When Jesus died, He made this possible. He gave us grace. He said, that we don't have to follow the law to get to Heaven. Anyone who believes in Him may have everlasting life. Anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved. By this, we are free to love God with a pure heart, with true love.

This is what God wants from us. He wants a relationship based on true love and not on obligation. This means that when we obey the law of God, we do so not because we are seeking a ticket into Heaven, but because we honestly love God. We do it out of love, and not out of obligation or reward.

Now, do not mistake what I am saying. I am not saying we should go out and sin. That is talk of the Devil.

However, if you go out and tell someone, "Obey God's commands or else you are going to Hell," or when you tell a person, "Do good or you will be judged." Then what you are doing is telling that person they "have" to obey God or else. You are removing love.

Jesus died to put an end to this. He died to set us free from the law. He did so that we may love God with pure hearts.

In doing so, Jesus also sent us help. He knew we couldn't follow the law on our own. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit to help us. And so, if we are truly saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, we will not seek to sin. We will sin, yes. However, we will not seek to sin.

Additionally, we will conquer sin with the help of Christ. He will be our strength to overcome sin. God makes us good by transforming us into new creatures. If we try to be good and follow the law by our own power, we will fail. We cannot. Only God is good. Only God can live up to His own law. And so, we need God to help us to be good and not sin.

What all this means is that if someone is truly filled with the Spirit, even though they know God will forgive them for thier sins, they will not go out and seek to sin. They will not because they truly love God and they do not seek to hurt Him. This is made possible by the power of the Holy Spirit.

However, if someone does not sin on thier own, if someone does not sin just because they are trying to seek rewards, God is thier judge. He knows what is truly in thier heart. He knows they are being selfish.

If you would like me to pair this up with scripture, I will show you. I do not include scripture, however, because I know you have read the bible. In addition, whether I say it or you read it out of the bible, you will not discern truth in either, unless you are open to the Holy Spirit.

I can only deliver the message. Whether or not it will take root and grow, can only come from God.

God Bless.

_________________
Blake Kidney