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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
That is False Doctrine to say we have been in Joel chapter 2 since then. How on earth have we been in Joel chapter 2 since Pentecost, with the exception of the only 2 verses Peter quoted, Just as Jesus only quoted His Two, for the Same reasons ???


Peter said 'this is that' which was spoken by the prophet Joel. It is because dispensationalists of a particular school have sliced scriptures into sections that the period which the scripture refers to 'as the last days' has become such a confusion.

The 'last days' was Joel's expression. Peter said 'this is that'. I rest my case.

Acts 2:17 (KJVS)
And it shall come to pass in [u]the last days[/u], saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
2Tim. 3:1 (KJVS)
This know also, that in [u]the last days[/u] perilous times shall come.
Heb. 1:2 (KJVS)
Hath in these [u]last days[/u] spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
2Pet. 3:3 (KJVS)
Knowing this first, that there shall come in [u]the last days[/u] scoffers, walking after their own lusts,


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/22 16:24Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Jesus declared ....

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

Here in the Temple, Jesus read from Isa 61:1 & 2, BUT, He had to stop short there, because verses 3 on 'WERE YET to be fullfilled'.


If you understand how partial quoting in the N.T. of the OLD, had a "very significant" reason .... because those days had not come as yet and are still future tense, then you'd understand why Peter only quoted two verses from Joel 2.


That is False Doctrine to say we have been in Joel chapter 2 since then. How on earth have we been in Joel chapter 2 since Pentecost, with the exception of the only 2 verses Peter quoted, Just as Jesus only quoted His Two, for the Same reasons ???



It is obvious what I was saying above in that ... Isaiah was 'partially' quoted by The Lord, because it had/has not yet happened or been fulfilled.

And Peter could only 'partially' quote Joel 2 because it had/has not yet happened or been fulfilled.

See ?

Joe 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
Joe 2:2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
Joe 2:3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
Joe 2:4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
Joe 2:5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
Joe 2:6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
Joe 2:7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:
Joe 2:8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.
Joe 2:9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
Joe 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
Joe 2:11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
Joe 2:12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
Joe 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
Joe 2:14 Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
Joe 2:15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:
Joe 2:16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.
Joe 2:17 Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?
Joe 2:18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.
Joe 2:19 Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
Joe 2:20 But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savor shall come up, because he hath done great things.
Joe 2:21 Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things.
Joe 2:22 Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.
Joe 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.
Joe 2:24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
Joe 2:25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpillar, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.
Joe 2:26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
Joe 2:27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Joe 2:30 And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

I wouldn't rest your case just yet friend.

Love in Christ Jesus.

Annie

 2005/8/22 16:55









 Re:

Did I remember to add what and How the N.T. would quote certain "portions" of a Chapter, and this was because of something called....

"Partial fulfillment" of that Chapter and not the Entire fulfillment of that Book or Chapter ?

Both Jesus' quote and Peter's, were given as examples of a present tense, (in their time and on) "Partial fulfillment" of a Chapter or portion of Scripture ... we all know there were no Chapters back then.

 2005/8/22 17:01
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
am sure stuff like that happens everyday. Just wanted to know if you have a couple that you would like to share, I got the time to read.


Back to the original question: I'll give you an example of an early morning revelation that I had: As I awoke one morning I saw a very lush green garden. The grass and trees were all wet. In the distance I could distinguish a man, and I asked, "who is that" The answer was: Christ.
Now that was a significant vision because for a long time I had been studying about REST - ie entering God's rest.
I had also been studying about physical rest. For 10 years prior to that I had suffered from Chronic Fatigue Syndrone.

The vision that morning had an incredible spritual message. You see, that was also the day I was suddenly healed (completely) My physical healing, paralleled a significant spiritual milestone - spiritual rest - experiencing Christ's salvation - and entering into his presence. (the vision) The wet on the grass signified a storm that had passed over - the stormy times of illness, suffering, wrestling with God, etc etc,


Here are more examples: One day when I was praying for a youth, I "saw" him straddling a fault line. The meaning seemed to be clear. On one hand, he wanted to serve God, and on the other hand, he wanted to fit in with his peers. I told him the vision and he admitted that his heart was divided.

One night, when I was youth chaplain, I had a dream about the youth having a wild party. When I told one of the girls about it in the morning she got all flustered and said, "Well, why can't I have some fun!" Really I knew NOTHING about her having a party during the night, but by her response, she gave herself away. It happened that she was the main instigator of a lot of trouble. (and later fired) God revealed it all to me in a dream!!
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2005/8/22 18:34Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: Generally speaking

Let me tell the funny story of a man who was seeking the Lord about God's will and direction for his life, he flipped open the Word of God and pointed to a passage of scripture and it read," Judas went out and hanged himself", not having the results he hoped for he tried it again and it read, " what thou doest do quickly". :-) :-)
A cute and humourous story. I use it to illustrate a point. While the church of Jesus' Christ is supernatural in its make-up and while individuals will display supernatural acts or manisfestations in thier witness or service at times, it all must still bring our focus right back to Jesus, and He (Holy Spirit) when He comes will testify of Me (Jesus Christ).



Now as to my personal experience more often than not , The Spirit of God will give me understanding in His Word and I'll recieve wise instruction in the way to proceed. We always must remember that the Old Testament Saints as well as the First Century Saints in the NT had an awesome knowledge of the Written Word, weather through oral transmission , scrolls memorized (a true prophet had to write the first 5 books from memory without error). Or other forms of transmission that are afloat out there. So all experiences are really to be conditioned by our knowledge of the Word of God in written form and weighted against that.

I do believe that at certain times such experiences can and do happen but I also don't believe it's healthy to constantly relie on or even seek such experiences. It's kinda like mircles. It's great to know we have a miracle working God, but if we are in constant need of a miracle from God in our lives then we really need to evaluate what 's really going on in our lives.
God bless one and all Bro. Daryl


_________________
D.Miller

 2005/8/22 19:33Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
Let me tell the funny story of a man who was seeking the Lord about God's will and direction for his life, he flipped open the Word of God and pointed to a passage of scripture and it read," Judas went out and hanged himself", not having the results he hoped for he tried it again and it read, " what thou doest do quickly".


What a wet-blanket response to the examples I gave in response to Aeryck's request!!!!!!!!!
Can't one simply rejoice in what God did and is doing in the lives of countless numbers of his servants to futher his gospel and strengthen his people - without always having to express grave concerns and reservations. It seems like there is so much fear of revelation - trivializing it, mocking it, or suspecting that it might not be biblical or authentic.

Does the Father give a stone to his children who ask for bread?

Consider this: "In those days the word of the Lord was rare: there were not many visions." 1 Sam. 3:1
Wasn't that because of unbelief in Israel, and couldn't that be also true for our culture - including many professing Christians?

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2005/8/22 19:56Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Did you even bother to read the rest of the post?


_________________
D.Miller

 2005/8/22 20:38Profile









 Re: Ever see stuff in the morning?

Quote:
I do believe that at certain times such experiences can and do happen but [b]I also don't believe it's healthy to constantly relie on or even seek such experiences[/b]. It's kinda like mircles. It's great to know we have a miracle working God, but if we are in constant need of a miracle from God in our lives then we really need to evaluate what 's really going on in our lives.

Dear Bro Daryl,

I think I understand your concern because, as has been discussed earlier in the thread, during the twilight hours, one is vulnerable.

This is exactly why God uses it to speak to those for whom it is a good way to communicate. There are many reasons, not least, the availability to listen and hear in the quiet start of the day, of the believer. Sometimes this is merely a reflection of how busy they will be later.

This makes me wonder if it is something to do with lifestyle and/or gifting. When a baby is born to a very busy mother, it manages to commandeer the only quiet time (usually night) to make it's appearance, or at least stake its claim to top priority attention, by promising to come soon (labour). The principle of being at rest and open to hear from the Lord, is what gives Him permission to speak.

'if we are in constant need of a miracle from God in our lives then we really need to evaluate what 's really going on in our lives.'

Isn't 'the just shall live by faith' and ongoing continuous miracle? That's how I see it, anyway. From what Jesus said, John 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father..' that He too saw things [i]all the time[/i], or 'heard' His Father speaking to Him. Didn't He rely on this?

I'd agree with you that what the Lord says in a vision or a dream must tie in with scripture and it is a good test to give consideration to that.

But, there comes a time when one is less surprised than at first, though they always seem awesome because they are not superfluous to the lives of those who receive them. They are as much the fabric of every day survival. Such waking visions (as Leanne Payne calls them) bring much needed answers and direction for overwhelmingly practical outworking in life.

In defence of my own experience, I was in true extremis when the Lord spoke to me that morning. I picked that example, because it is easy to share it publicly, but He was bringing all sorts of things to my understanding day by day by day - all day - not just in the mornings.

This beats having to go up and down the mountain like Moses did in Exodus 19 and 20, to spend time with God. (I mean, we can all spend time with God if we wish. Back then, only Moses had to 'hear' for the whole nation. No wonder he was always on the move.)

 2005/8/22 21:25
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

I appreciate you comments sis :-)
What I meant by the miracle comment comes from my own experience. We went through a tough time where the cupboards were bare and no food, monies, ect were in sight. We lived on the edge for months. During that time the Lord sent the monies in and the provisions in to take care of my wife and children and all our house hold needs. The provisions came from alot of different places as people we didn't even know were moved to give to us. While that experience is treasured in my memory, I wouldn't want to go back and relive it.

I have seen God speak with clearity very specific things to very specific circumstances or needs that needed to be ministered to. And in every instance Jesus' was glorified. Alot of time in hindsight I could trace back the event in scripture and prove it out.My wife says I analynze to much. :-?

I'm generally slow to speak concerning anothers spiritual experience, and most of what I write isn't really directed toward anyone specifically but often in a general sense is a warning for balance and in that I often come across wrongly. :-(

I read that book by Brother Lawrence, "Practicing the Presence of God". I read it as a babe in Christ and it stuck, imagine that! Ever since it has been my daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, lifestyle.

I do cherish those early quiet times where God speaks to me or quickenes something of His Word to me however, I have had times where it seemed different too, and as I tested it against the Word I had to reject it. So I guess for me, for myself, I chose to error on the side of caution, I'm speaking for me only here. Cor. says the spiritual man judges all things.
Anyway, God Bless my Prayers,-n- Love in Christ to all who call upon the name of Jesus. Bro. Daryl


_________________
D.Miller

 2005/8/22 22:16Profile









 Re: Ever see stuff in the morning?

Quote:
The provisions came from alot of different places as people we didn't even know were moved to give to us. While that experience is treasured in my memory, I wouldn't want to go back and relive it.

I have seen God speak with clearity very specific things to very specific circumstances or needs that needed to be ministered to. [b]And in every instance Jesus' was glorified. Alot of time in hindsight I could trace back the event in scripture and prove it out.[/b] My wife says I analynze to much.

[b]I'm generally slow to speak concerning anothers spiritual experience[/b]

Bro Daryl,

Thanks for your testimony here. Praise the Lord for those provisions!

I've heard a brother who spent 6 weeks in an ICU after a serious accident, testify it was the most precious time of visions and the Lord's presence, but he wouldn't want to go back there either! (True!)

On analysing, I think there does need to be. And it cannot destroy the word of God. I can see why you would want to reassure yourself scriptural principles were borne out, especially when you may wish to use your own testimony when preaching.

Now you've owned-up to getting revelation [i]yourself[/i] 8-) , early in the morning! it balances up your other concern that no-one should depend on it unduly, but I guess, if you removed all those little insights from your knowledge, you'd have a harder time doing what you do...! I could not have lived without mine, at the time.

 2005/8/22 23:14





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