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 Fatal decision

Usually, something like this little article would go in RASA (the random article thread) but it seems quite appropriate to what we've been discussing over the last month, and 'sidetracked' is mentioned in freecd's thread RESTING IS THE REQUIRED OBEDIENCE. This is one sobering perspective.


[b]THE DANGER OF BEING SIDETRACKED[/b]

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." (Eph. 5:11)



We frankly admit that error and false doctrine are some of Satan's most successful means of recapturing souls. However, while this is true, it is also equally true that carnal associates and worldly friends have been the cause of more people backsliding and returning to sin and the world than all the erroneous books on earth. Therefore, newly converted souls cannot be too careful at this point. When money, pleasure, strong drink and all other devices fall in the hands of the devil to induce souls to return to the ways of sin, a subtle, sly, attractive human being (especially a woman) hardly ever fails, unless God mightily interposes.



A number of years ago in the midst of a powerful revival the preacher observed a young lady under deep conviction. He was moved by the Spirit to urge her to give her heart to God. He plead with her and urged her not to grieve the Holy Ghost, but she replied, "Not tonight." She went home under deep conviction and told her parents how she felt, and how she had been halting between two opinions; that she never felt such concern for her soul before, and never realized her danger of being lost at any period during her life so much as she realized it that night. Her parents were unsaved and had no concern for her eternal welfare. On asking their opinion regarding her living for Jesus, they said in reply: "You are young and will have plenty of time," so after a struggle with the Spirit of God for several days she yielded to the advice of her parents and sent the Holy Spirit away. Some weeks after the revival closed she was stricken down very ill and in a short time was on the verge of eternity. She tried hard to pray and obtain the favor of God but He refused to be entreated. She had allowed her loved ones to get between her and the Savior. Hence she went out into the great beyond -- a lost soul.

[i]John Hames[/i]

 2005/8/17 17:46
dougkristen
Member



Joined: 2004/1/28
Posts: 360


 Re: Fatal decision

Fear God, Not man...

Today is the day of salvation...

In Christ,
DOug


_________________
a Jesus freak

 2005/8/17 18:07Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re: Fatal decision

The judge of all the earth will do right. He will be absolutely fair. Honestly no one knows what happened before anyone died, but God. Judas fooled the 11, we can be fooled to. He will judge absolutely fairly, though.


_________________
Hal Bachman

 2005/8/18 6:00Profile
Nellie
Member



Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Re: Fatal decision

I agree with you, letsgetbusy, that we can be fooled, also, for I have been, but the Spirit of the Living God showed me who was deceiving me.
We have to depend on the Holy Spirit to show us.

God judges Righteous judgment.
He looks on our heart, and by their fruit we we will know them.

I do pray the young lady made it to Heaven.

Thank God, He isn't willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance.
He is a merciful God, for He had mercy on me, and He isn't any respecter of persons.

God Bless
In His Service
Nellie :-)

 2005/8/18 12:38Profile









 Re:

This made me think of a verse which I read recently in Hebrews 12:16-17 where it says:

Quote:
lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. For you know afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance though he sought it diligently with tears.'



I was wondereing (and worrying about this) as I have chosen to do my own thing many times and realised later what an idiot I have been and how it really isn't worth sacrificing following God for a moment's pleasure of whatever it is that you want to do instead. I have come to God often quite quickly after and repented and asking Him to forgive me. I sometimes worry about this verse though as I think that what if God rejected me because of this. Then I think of the verse that says in John 6:37

Quote:
All that the Father gives Me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will by no means cast out



Maybe I am confused (I quite often am! :-( ) but that is what I choose to believe when I come to Him for forgiveness as, if I took the other verse to mean that sometimes we may seek repentance earnestly and with tears and get rejected, then I would be in depair. But then I think that if I want to ask for forgiveness and go God's way then that is repenting so I have not been denied the gift of repentance. I guess at the end of the day I put myself completely in His hands and trust Him with all this and trust that His sacrifice is enough to cover everything as long as I come to Him believing and give my life to Him. Someone may want to help me out with what all of this means! :-( Sorry I may have needed to start a different thread here!

Liz :-D

 2005/8/18 18:21









 Re: Fatal decision

Recently, philologos used the verse about Esau in a thread. I'm not sure if I can find it. He made a distinction between a person's heavenly destiny and their earthly destiny. I'm sure if you ask him, he could explain more.

Repentance should include a decision to turn away from a particular sin. Sometimes we can beat ourselves up over whether we have repented 'properly'. It's useful to note whether one has passed the pivotal decision, 8-) or, one is moving towards it, :-) or, it doesn't seem to be getting any closer! :-(

If there is absolutely no progress on breaking away from a sin, it's time to deal with it differently, either by asking someone else to pray for you, or, by praying for insight which will help you get the measure of the hindrance.

Quote:
I guess at the end of the day I put myself completely in His hands and trust Him with all this and trust that His sacrifice is enough to cover everything as long as I come to Him believing and give my life to Him.

It [i]sounds[/i] like you just have a little wobble when there's a bit of trauma in your relationship with God, but, you understand what's going on, and you're pressing forward, and you [i]are[/i] in a relationship with Him. This last is the main thing, as from here, He can continue to lead you.

 2005/8/20 21:55
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: No it is not ...

Found this to be quite bothersome...

Quote:
so after a struggle with the Spirit of God for several days she yielded to the advice of her parents and sent the Holy Spirit away. Some weeks after the revival closed she was stricken down very ill and in a short time was on the verge of eternity. She tried hard to pray and obtain the favor of God but He refused to be entreated. She had allowed her loved ones to get between her and the Savior. Hence she went out into the great beyond -- a lost soul.



Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

How many times did I personally do exactly the same thing, halting, not yet willing to give up neither my sin nor my soul back to the Father? Though He hounded me and flooded me with such an overwhelming sense of His Presence, still I recoiled at it, halting between two opinions and this occasion presented itself at the least three times that I can recall that were overt and many, many times of a more subtle nature. This, occurring over the course of a couple of years.

Peter denied he even [i]knew[/i] the Lord and yet..?

The issue with Esau and the obvious correlations being drawn from this treatise are off base and out of context. To state:
Quote:
She tried hard to pray and obtain the favor of God but He refused to be entreated.

Is utter nonsense and sounds like the craftiness of man to strike fear by twisting scripture to mean something other than what was and is intended. This kind of thing bothers me immensely, it is to be dishonest and adding or aberrating, a skewered pragmatism.

There is all the difference in the world to be denied a blessing and being denied salvation. What is the context of both Genesis and Hebrews in regards to Esau?

Some commentary:

[b]Heb 12:17 -
For ye know how that afterward ...[/b] - When he came to his father, and earnestly besought him to reverse the sentence which he had pronounced; see Gen_27:34-40. The “blessing” here referred to was not that of the birth-right, which he knew he could not regain, but that pronounced by the father Isaac on him whom he regarded as his first-born son. This Jacob obtained by fraud, when Isaac really “meant” to bestow it on Esau. Isaac appears to have been ignorant wholly of the bargain which Jacob and Esau had made in regard to the birth-right, and Jacob and his mother contrived in this way to have that confirmed which Jacob had obtained of Esau by contract. The sanction of the father, it seems, was necessary, before it could be made sure, and Rebecca and Jacob understood that the dying blessing of the aged patriarch would establish it all. It was obtained by dishonesty on the part of Jacob; but so far as Esau was concerned, it was an act of righteous retribution for the little regard he had shown for the honor of his birth.

[b]For he found no place of repentance -[/b] Margin, “Way to change his mind,” That is, no place for repentance “in the mind of Isaac,” or no way to change his mind. It does not mean that Esau earnestly sought to repent and could not, but that when once the blessing had passed the lips of his father, he found it impossible to change it. Isaac firmly declared that he had “pronounced” the blessing, and though it had been obtained by fraud, yet as it was of the nature of a divine prediction, it could not now be changed. He had not indeed intended that it should be thus. He had pronounced a blessing on another which had been designed for him. But still the benediction had been given. The prophetic words had been pronounced. By divine direction the truth had been spoken, and how could it be changed? It was impossible now to reverse the divine purposes in the case, and hence, the “blessing” must stand as it had been spoken. Isaac did, however, all that could be done. He gave a benediction to his son Esau, though of far inferior value to what he had pronounced on the fraudulent Jacob; Gen_27:39-40.

[b]Though he sought it carefully with tears -[/b] Gen_27:34. He sought to change the purpose of his father, but could not do it. The meaning and bearing of this passage, as used by the apostle, may be easily understood:

(1) The decision of God on the human character and destiny will soon be pronounced. That decision will be according to truth, and cannot be changed.

(2) if we should despise our privileges as Esau did his birth-right, and renounce our religion, it would be impossible to recover what we had lost. There would be no possibility of changing the divine decision in the case, for it would be determined forever. [b][i]This passage, therefore, should not be alleged to show that a sinner. “cannot repent,” or that he cannot find “place for repentance,” or assistance to enable him to repent, or that tears and sorrow for sin would be of no avail, for it teaches none of these things;[/i][/b] but it should be used to keep us from disregarding our privileges, from turning away from the true religion, from slighting the favors of the gospel, and from neglecting religion until death comes; because when God has once pronounced a sentence excluding us from his favor, no tears, or pleading, or effort of our own can change him. The sentence which he pronounces on the scoffer, the impenitent, the hypocrite, and the apostate, is one that will abide forever without change. This passage, therefore, is in accordance with the doctrine more than once stated before in this Epistle, that if a Christian should really apostatize it would be impossible that he should be saved; see the notes on Heb_6:1-6.

[i]Barnes Notes[/i]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There is enough to consider without the meddling of mere men attempting to help out God by twisting His words to the unsaved.

Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/8/21 9:48Profile









 Re: Fatal decision

Bro,

I'm grateful for your input here.

On reading it, I realise I've never understood what was behind the allusion to Esau in Hebrews. In fact, I've heard those lines extracted for the very same purpose they were used in my leading post - to try to push a congregation towards meaningful repentance.

Even at the time (back then) I knew enough to know you can't rush the Holy Spirit, just because the preacher wants a response!

Still, I don't know whether it was my erstwhile gullibility which made me post this without comment - because I did wonder 'how can he be [i]sure[/i] she was lost forever?'

Would you have rather I pulled the article for your attention? Will you be taking it out of SI archives for good?

Quote:
Found this to be quite bothersome...

Comforted you did. Blessed to be put right here.

Quote:
Is utter nonsense and sounds like the craftiness of man to strike fear by twisting scripture to mean something other than what was and is intended. This kind of thing bothers me immensely, it is to be dishonest and adding or aberrating, a skewered pragmatism.

[b]There is all the difference in the world to be denied a blessing and being denied salvation[/b].


How many times did I personally do exactly the same thing, halting, not yet willing to give up neither my sin nor my soul back to the Father? Though [b]He hounded me and flooded me with such an overwhelming sense of His Presence[/b], still I recoiled at it, halting between two opinions and [b]this occasion presented itself at the least three times that I can recall that were overt and many, many times of a more subtle nature[/b]. This, occurring over the course of a couple of years.

Peter denied he even knew the Lord and yet..?

How well you capture the battle of choices we all go through.

Praise the Lord you let Him win you over. :-P

 2005/8/21 14:34
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Fatal

Hi Dorcas,

Not at all, that an article was posted from the archives wouldn't of necessity mean that it was your words or your sentiments exactly. But I am glad that it was brought up to be examined. I was taken aback by it, never hearing of this gentleman before. Certainly this seemed to be quite off here and have heard similar usages in this manner, wouldn't attribute it to being devious, but a wrong application.

It is one of the more often unrecognized things that I find. Almost a certain liberty as Christians to not quite tell the truth, to help further Gods ends. We ought not to be known for that. A perfect example would be the bit that was circulating not to far back about the pastor who lambasted a bunch of preachers and then refused a sizable check to make the point. Problem was, it came from a fictional story, an excerpt from a book. It sounded great until it was found to never have happened. That it got circulated in the first place without any disclaimer and worse that it had gone on so long before anyone started really checking into it...

We need to be good Bereans and check all things.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/8/21 20:38Profile





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