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JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

For me, this sums up the problem:

Matthew 7
15 "Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravaging wolves. 16 You'll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. 18 A good tree can't produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that doesn't produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So you'll recognize them by their fruit.

21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?' 23 Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!' 24 "Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain fell, the rivers rose, and the winds blew and pounded that house. Yet it didn't collapse, because its foundation was on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of Mine and doesn't act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, the rivers rose, the winds blew and pounded that house, and it collapsed. And its collapse was great!" 28 When Jesus had finished this sermon, the crowds were astonished at His teaching. 29 For He was teaching them like one who had authority, and not like their scribes.

False teachers declaring a false message creates false converts. The ultimate problem is that not all people who "claim" to be Christians ARE Christians.

 2005/8/16 14:16Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I personally feel anything before salvation does not count, isn't that what salvation is all about and if I was a member of a Church that held that against me



There are those who believe this does apply to those who were divorced before salvation. My personal feeling is that if you were divorced and remarried before salvation, then your clean. If you were divorced before salvation... but never remarried and are now saved... you should remain single, or reconcile with your ex. But no on the remarriage.

Just my personal conviction on it.

Krispy

 2005/8/16 14:17









 Re:

Quote:
This is very true... but they are under His judgement at the same time.

Krispy,

I don't think you can say this. You can only advise a person to seek God's word to their own life.

Quote:
If you were divorced before salvation... but never remarried and are now saved... you should remain single, or reconcile with your ex. But no on the remarriage.

Just my personal conviction on it.

Again, it has to depend on the reason for the divorce and what else is going on with the ex, whether reconciliation is ever going to be an option. Either the slate is clean or it isn't. You are trying to have a half-way house, here.

 2005/8/16 14:40
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
I personally feel anything before salvation does not count, isn't that what salvation is all about and if I was a member of a Church that held that against me



Billpro,

I guess one's take on that would depend on how they believe God views marriage. If one does not believe that unbelievers are truly "joined" when they get married, I can understand your viewpoint. However, if one believes ALL first marriages are joined/bound til death (Rom. 7:2-3, I Cor. 7:39), the "whens" of salvation do not enter in. If one divorces and remarries (commits adultery according to Jesus), then gets saved, they are still adulterers if they continue the relationship Jesus called adultery.........no different than a person who gets saved in a homosexual "marriage", union, etc. When their sin is revealed to them, they need to forsake that sin. I cannot come to any other conclusion based upon the scriptures I've studied. As Krispy said, if one is divorced when coming to Christ, that does not mean that God now wiped away their marriage, now they can remarry. Scripture is clear that if one finds themself "unmarried", they are to remain "unmarried" or be reconciled. There is no other option for the believer who desires to forsake all for the cause of Christ. IMHO, using the passage "you are a new creature, created in Christ Jesus" does not give one a license to continue in the sins they came to Christ guilty of..........Blessings in Jesus, Cindy


_________________
Cindy

 2005/8/16 15:47Profile
Christisking
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

Krispy wrote-

Quote:

“If you were divorced before salvation... but never remarried and are now saved... you should remain single, or reconcile with your ex. But no on the remarriage.

Just my personal conviction on it.”

I believe you are correct according to Scripture. You can ask for forgiveness and be for given for your pervious divorce, but I don’t think that just because you are forgiven you now can go against the commands of Jesus. If Jesus said those who are divorced are ineligible for remarriage, I believe that is what He meant. He did not say to repent and then you can be remarried, as many in people may suggest. If this is what He meant, then I believe this is what He would have said. Jesus said (other than adultery) if you are divorced you are ineligible for remarriage. I think we should be very, very, very careful as to not try to make exceptions or read things we want to hear or that sound good and logical to us into these words of Jesus. You absolutely must repent and you will be forgiven, but you are still ineligible.


_________________
Patrick Ersig

 2005/8/16 16:00Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Again, it has to depend on the reason for the divorce and what else is going on with the ex, whether reconciliation is ever going to be an option. Either the slate is clean or it isn't. You are trying to have a half-way house, here.



No, actually I'm not... we're presuming the divorce did NOT happen because of adultry. For anything other reason other than adultry I stand by what I said.

Again, this is my personal convictions based on my interpretation of the Bible. I'm not forcing anything on anyone here... just want to make that clear. This has been my counsel to people when I am asked what I think. It's up to each individual to seek the Lord.

Krispy

 2005/8/16 16:03









 Re: divorce statistics

Quote:
No, actually I'm not... we're presuming the divorce did NOT happen because of adultry. For anything other reason other than adultry I stand by what I said.

Krispy,

Could you explain your advice when children are being violated? What is the 'Christian' status of the molestor? And, what is the culpability of the non-molesting parent, who does not remove the children from danger, if any? (Please bear in mind the possibility of a female who molests children.)

Lastly, we are discussing physical violence in another thread, it might be better to comment there, on that, if you wish to.

 2005/8/16 16:21









 Re:

Quote:
Could you explain your advice when children are being violated? What is the 'Christian' status of the molestor? And, what is the culpability of the non-molesting parent, who does not remove the children from danger, if any? (Please bear in mind the possibility of a female who molests children.)



Simple... if I was in charge of the US, child molestors would be put to death. Then the spouse would be free to remarry.

In reality tho, if someone came to me and sought my counsel about their spouse molesting the children, or being physically violent, I would recommend they seperate. Seek counseling for the violence. For sexual molestation I would personally recommend they never never never let the children near them again. Also, the guilty party needs to be turned over to the law.

Divorce is ok in that instance. It is not the divorce that Jesus forbids... it's the remarriage. However, in the case of sexual molestation it could be argued that the guilty spouse committed adultry/fornication, thereby making remarriage lawful for the innocent spouse. I personally do not have an issue with that, I think remarriage is ok in that situation.

But not for violence or psychological abuse. Jesus only gave [b]one[/b] condition in which a spouse could remarry. Peeople were beating their spouses back then too... He would have mentioned it if it was ok to remarry under those conditions. He did not, and neither did Paul.

Also... one more thing... if the innocent spouses keeps the children in a dangerous situation and does not remove them... I recommend a tall tree and a short piece of rope for them as well.

Krispy

 2005/8/16 16:27
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Could you explain your advice when children are being violated?



Mine would be the guillotine. 8-)


_________________
Bill

 2005/8/16 16:29Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Mine would be the guillotine.



Gotta love Texas justice! LOL

We do things a little slower here in North Carolina... we let 'em swing for awhile. Bake in the sun until they're golden brown...

Krispy

 2005/8/16 16:31





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