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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Hi Jake
your quote:I divide the Christian faith into what I call Christians and Paulians. In many cases the later have fallen away from the original intent of Jesus. (This is what the Spirit tells me.)

Jake, I really don't want this to sound as censorious as it will, but you have a different spirit talking to you than the one that spoke to George Fox, Robert Barclay and so many others. They were adamant that there could be no disagreement between the testimony of the Spirit in their hearts and the testimony of the Spirit in the scriptures.

The spirit that is talking to you is intent on isolating you from the community of testimony. Have you ever noticed that the book says we have the mind of Christ rather than "I have the mind of Christ". John brings a similar truth But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. This is 'ye' rather than 'thou'. This is the community of the Spirit, otherwise known as the Church. There is no safety outside this Church.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2003/12/8 12:45Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

"Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave to sin. And a slave does not abide in the house FOREVER, but a son abides forever." John 8:34-35


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/8 12:48Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

I realize that much of our differences arise from a fundamental difference in the way we view the Bible. For instance, I see Paul as a great evangelist who got a lot of stuff wrong.



Paul might have gotten something wrong... but nothing in the Scriptures he wrote of is wrong.

Quote:

I divide the Christian faith into what I call Christians and Paulians. In many cases the later have fallen away from the original intent of Jesus. (This is what the Spirit tells me.)



The Holy Spirit of God has told you no such thing, though a spirit of deception has. The Holy Spirit bears witness that the writings we have of Paul, Peter, John are all inspired, and part of the Christian faith. There is no contradiction between Paul and Christ. Your faith is not the faith of the Spirit, nor is your faith that of Christianity.

Why are you even on this message board or web site?


_________________
Jimmy H

 2003/12/8 12:53Profile









 Re:



Philologos,

The Church Community you speak of supports "just war", swearing Oaths, and other things that are clearly opposed to the teachings of Jesus.

It employs coercion to enforce a strictly literalist belief system that denies scientific facts (such as evolution) and shuts out the Holy Spirit.

YOu are wrong about Fox. See below a quote I have posted before.

"The Scriptures were the prophets' words and Christ's and the Apostles' words, and what as they spoke they enjoyed and possessed and had it from the Lord. . . Then what has any to do with the Scriptures, but as they came to the Spirit that gave them forth? You will say, Christ saith this, and the apostles say this: but what canst thou say? Are thou a child of Light and hast walked in the Light, and what thou speakest, is it inwardly from God?"

"This opened me so that it cut me to the heart; and then I saw clearly we were all wrong. So I sat down in my pew again, and cried bitterly. And I cried in my spirit to the Lord, 'We are all thieves, we are all theives, we have taken the Scriptures in words and know nothing of them in ourselves'".

George Fox, founder, Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)

Moreover, I do not feel isolated from the community of testimony, but rather more connected to it. The process of discernment through the leadings of the Holy Spirit bring me closer to the Church Jesus spoke of.

Jake

 2003/12/8 13:20
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Jake,

"Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave to sin. And, a slave DOES NOT ABIDE IN THE HOUSE FOREVER, but a son abides forever." John 8:34-35

"For if you live according to the flesh YOU WILL DIE, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live." Romans 8:13.

"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12

Jake ask the Holy Spirit for descernment. Jesus said a slave to sin will not abide in the house of God forever. But he does abide for a while. Paul says that one will die if he continues to follow his flesh. Paul is speaking to the brethren. I do not believe "Once saved always saved." This is a precept of man's doctrine.

listen to His voice.


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/8 13:40Profile









 Re:



Philologos,

YOu are also incorrect about Robert Barclay.

Here's what he says in his work "The Apology"

THE THIRD PROPOSITION
Concerning the Scriptures

From these revelations of the Spirit of God to the saints have proceeded the Scriptures of Truth, which contain,

I. A faithful historical account of the actings of God's people in divers ages; with many singular and remarkable providences attending them.

II. A prophetical account of several things, whereof some are already past, and some yet to come.

III. A full and ample account of all the chief principles of the doctrine of Christ, held forth in divers precious declarations, exhortations and sentences, which, by the moving of God's Spirit, were at several times, and upon sundry occasions, spoken and written unto some churches and their pastors.

Nevertheless, because they are only a declaration of the fountain, and not the fountain itself, therefore they are not to be esteemed the principal ground of all Truth and knowledge, nor yet the adequate primary rule of faith and manners.

 2003/12/8 13:54
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

The Church Community you speak of supports "just war", swearing Oaths, and other things that are clearly opposed to the teachings of Jesus.



I don't see how these things are "clearly" opposed to the teachings of Jesus.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2003/12/8 13:54Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Jake,

Don't justify your position by what men argue or do. Look to the author and finisher of our faith! Believe every word. Do not put false gods before Him.


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2003/12/8 14:17Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Jake
You are being disingenuous. This kind of dishonesty is a testimony to the spirit you are listening to, but is dishonouring to the memory of Robert Barclay. Why didn't you finish the quotation?

your quote:Nevertheless, because they are only a declaration of the fountain, and not the fountain itself, therefore they are not to be esteemed the principal ground of all Truth and knowledge, nor yet the adequate primary rule of faith and manners You stopped half way through a paragraph which continues...

..primary rule of faith and manners. Nevetheless, as that which giveth a true and faithful testimony of the first foundation, they are and may be esteemed a secondary rule, subordinate to the Spirit, from which they have all their excellency and certainty; for as by the inward testimony of the Spirit we do alone truly know them, so they testify, that the Spirit is that guide by which the saints are led into all truth: therefore, according to the scriptures, the Spirit is the first and principal leader. And seeing we do therefore receive and believe the scriptures, because they proceeded from the Spirit; therefore also the Spirit is more originally and principally the rule, according that received maxim in the schools. [then a latin phrase translated as] That for which a thing is such, that thing itself of more such.

The last quote simply means that God is bigger than His book, and you will get no-one quarreling with that on this forum.

Jake, the reason you don't understand Barclay is because you don't have the Spirit that inspired both him and the book which he referred to as being 'faithful and true' and as having 'excellency and certainty'. The reason, in Barclay's words, that you 'do not truly know the scriptures' is because you are without the Spirit which inspired them, and consequently they cannot bear witness to your spirit.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2003/12/8 15:23Profile









 Re:


And he continues

For as we freely acknowledge that their authority doth not depend upon the approbation or canons of any church or assembly; so neither can we subject them to the fallen, corrupt and defiled reason of man, and therein as we do freely agree with the Protestants against the error of the Romanists, so on the other hand, we cannot go the length of such Protestants as make their authority to depend upon any virtue or power that is in the writings themselves; but we desire to ascribe all to that Spirit from which they proceeded.

"therefore also the Spirit is more originally and principally the rule"

If you wait upon the Spirit you will know the Truth. This is the fundamental message of Barclay. In his days, the Government established church persecuted people for not adhering to their scriptural interpretation. They charged all people a tithe, which Quakers refused. Barclay's Apology was addressed to this Govenment, and he had to walk a very thin line not to be thrown into prison for Blasphemy. Friends call him the Apologist for good reason.

If you have ever participated in what Friends call a "gathered Meeting" you know the Holy Spirit. This is not the same as participating in a silent Meeting for Worship. There is a clear difference. I have participated in Meetings where all of a sudden everyone gathered will get this look on their face of pure delight and wonderment. Like we are all floating on a cloud. No one or few speak because they do not want to break this experience. I have also been in a meeting where I felt moved to sing a song (very unusual) and at the last second I was told to halt and wait. Then a few minutes later the person next to me began singing the very same song that I felt moved by the Spirit to sing!! Don't tell me that I cling some demon or evil spirit. Twenty years of experience tells me otherwise.

 2003/12/8 16:30





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