There is more to scripture than proof texting, but might have more of an answer soon. It would just about demolish glossalalia I think.

The judgement on the Jews at Babel was carried out in the dispersion but at Pentecost maybe it is more than that.

When Babel occurred, there was no such thing as a Jew, nor was there an Israelite. Sons of Shem could be considered Semitic peoples. Jews are, specifically, descendants of Judah, who was born a long time after Babel. Babel was about two things. One was the people's idolatry, and their unification in that idolatry. The second was about their disobedience in spreading out and filling the Earth. Hence, the dispersion. So Babel was not a judgement on Jews. Jews did not even exist yet.

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Travis

OK thanks, I'll look into that.

Who is the 'unbeliever' that the sign of tongues is for then?

Travis wrote:
/Todd: Referencing your note about Phillip's commentary.

I don't really see any contradiction. Let me see if I can articulate what I see, my perspective anyway.//

Your explanation is certainly possible. I hadn’t considered that before.

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Todd

I am not familiar with this ministry or website, but the article speaks of Pentecost and an Old Testament event from Exodus 32:27,28 that I have heard preachers link together (as ironic opposites) in years past:

https://centerforisrael.com/article/an-amazing-fact-about-pentecost-that-few-christians-know/#:~:text=Three%20thousand%20died%20by%20rebelling,Jewish%20foundations%20of%20our%20faith.

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Travis

Brenda: Look back a few posts in this thread. I gave what I think Paul is saying in 1 Cor. 14. I think I said it there.

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Travis

I don’t think Brenda is going to come back…unless it is to divert to something else…

Travis, what a blessing you are, I’m glad you are still on SI…

Brenda, I believe I remember you from years back also…

In kindness Brenda…Will you ever be more loyal to the Word of God than to the teachings of men who try to make the Word say something else?

You seem to depend on the teachings of men who support what you and your group are refusing to change your mind about, more than on the plain written Word of God. You don’t seem to be open to change your position on anything but only desire to teach others your dogma.

Blessings,
rbanks

Travis

Yes found it thank you for your help. I agree it was for the Jews.

However, God complains that the Israelites were always looking for a sign, yet He provides one that needs no faith. It seems to me that something is missing in our understanding of it.

But still looking into it as it seems there must be a connection.

rbanks

The problem with you is that you are still evangelical, as I was for a long time - even a Calvinist for goodness sake, so very well trained in hermeneutics and exegesis.

So I changed my position drastically from my readings which always included scriptural support and after studying it for such a long time, there is little that I have not studied like what we have been discussing.

Everybody says their version is scriptural being blind to other possibilities in theologies. I have read widely from them by now including Determinism Patristic and Arminian, whereas I find most people have stuck it out in one denomination or perhaps two. I read nearly as much in opposition to what I believe in order to frequently check my understanding and if in doubt will drop whatever it is and have done so often in the past, until I gained a firm foundation in Orthodox spirituality. It is there that I found the most truth.

I am not in a group, the Lord seems to have given me a life away from the enormous errors of today. I depend on Christ alone to guide me in the scriptures though the Holy Spirit and found the most confirmation in Orthodox spirituality.

The church today is not steeped in spirituality which is a problem where understanding others is concerned.

Brenda thanks for being honest…

But Brenda the gospel is clear in Romans chapters 1-8

Paul said that he was not ashamed of the gospel because it is the power of God.

If you have a true understanding of those 8 chapters you will see that it is what Jesus did for us on the cross…and how we are to place our faith completely in Him…be dead to sin and alive to God…receive the Holy Spirit…be filled with the Holy…be led by the Holy Spirit…walk in the Holy Spirit…etc…

We are to depend on the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth…