SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Heresy of Cessationism

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 Next Page )
PosterThread
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: Heresy of Cessationism

As a pentacostal who believes strongly in the continuation of the gifts seen in the book of Acts, for most of my life I avoided listening to anyone who I considered a cessationist. In the past year or two, events that I have experienced have caused my to broaden my horizons, so to speak, and listen to some cessationists. Here is what I learned.

1) They do not deny the power of God through the Holy Spirit.
2) They do not believe that miracles have ceased. They believe in asking God to do things, believing He can, and leaving the outcome in God's hands.
3) They do not believe that healing has ceased. They believe in asking God to heal, believing He can, and leaving the outcome in His hands.
4) They DO believe that the miracles, signs and wonders performed by the Apostles were a sign to the world that the Apostles were from God.
5) They DO believe that these sign gifts have ceased. Among these would be men performing miracles and healing people.
6) They DO believe in elders anointing with oil and praying for the sick. If the person is healed, they would usually say God did it sovereignly.

While I disagree with some of these things, NONE of them constitutes heresy. I saw the Kolenda video. I think he set up a strawman by mischaracterizing and then sought to have others react to the strawman. Again, I am NOT a cessationist and I believe they are misinterpreting some scripture, but they are definitely not heretics because of their cessationist beliefs.

If there are true cessationists on this forum, PLEASE correct me if I have any of this wrong about what you believe.


_________________
Travis

 2024/2/6 12:16Profile
KervinM
Member



Joined: 2019/1/15
Posts: 391
South Africa

 Re:

While this makes a good general structure, right inside each class you find those who's assertions are partial as well as those who are entirely in - which further complicates things. Like a 5% cessationalist will not reason the same as a 95%. Someone here said that Wesley was not 100% Cessational meaning he overlapped (if it is true)... It gets complicated. Is ours then not to try and understand the cause of all this confusion, perhaps?


_________________
Kervin

 2024/2/6 12:43Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Kervin: Agreed. But even if a person is 100% in each of the classes or beliefs I mentioned, it is not heretical. So if you disagree with cessationists 100%, and if they believe what I outlined 100%, you could still not call them heretics. You could, at best, say, "I disagree completely with their position."


_________________
Travis

 2024/2/6 13:05Profile
KervinM
Member



Joined: 2019/1/15
Posts: 391
South Africa

 Re:

I also agree there. And then I so wonder why it so gets? The devil, our illiteracy or something God deicided to leave there so we get to keep looking at Christ alone and not man?


_________________
Kervin

 2024/2/6 13:09Profile
brendaM
Member



Joined: 2024/1/19
Posts: 304
North Eastern UK

 Re:

Travis

As an ex-Cessationist, you summary is spot on and a bit of sanity here. And you are correct, I should not have missed this but, they are not heretics. Kolenda did set up a straw man.

It is tongues they disagree with the most, and the stress on healing. The continuists however, are having to backtrack when so many of their leaders and prominent people have or are dying of the same illnesses as everyone else. It is going to come right down on their heads before too long.

They also have to answer questions like, what were they doing during the plandemic?

The fact is that the healing we see in the NT was a sign that the ultimate healer had arrived, of our sick souls. Not many cases are reported these days and if they do arise, we must never forget that the devil can do these things. God does still heal though.

I must say though, that amongst the cessationists, even though they misinterpret scripture a lot, they are usually honest people and are not into the deception I meet in the other side of the stable.

 2024/2/6 13:14Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

There are doctrinal issues that we should be divided on. These are the heresy issues, or at least the clear cut right and wrong issues. If you deny the virgin birth or deny that Jesus is God in the flesh, then you are in heresy. If you claim that you are saved by your works, rather than by Jesus's sacrifice, then you are in heresy. If your doctrinal belief causes you to follow anything other than Jesus, to get your eyes off of Him, then you might by in heresy. At a bare minimum you are in an error that you need to recognize and repent of before you are led astray. But to believe that God does miracles and heals by His sovereign will rather than anointing men to do these works does not cause you to take your eyes off of Jesus, neither does it make you a heretic.

I think that is the way I would put it.

Good point Kervin. Often this debate does take people's eyes off of Jesus and puts them on their disagreements with each other. There are things we SHOULD disagree with, and that vehemently. Then there are issues like this. We can discuss them, but we need to do so as brothers who recognize one another as such. To say, "The Cessationish Heresy" just demonstrates that you have priorities other than sound doctrine and keeping your eyes on Jesus. By my observation, Kolenda has an agenda. Without a signs and wonders doctrine, his entire Christology and Pneumatology collapses. So, cessationists must be heretics.


_________________
Travis

 2024/2/6 13:24Profile
KervinM
Member



Joined: 2019/1/15
Posts: 391
South Africa

 Re:

...


_________________
Kervin

 2024/2/6 13:25Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Brenda: I totally agree with you here.

As a pentacostal who believes in praying in tongues and has seen the legitimate gift of tongues operate in the body a few times, I think a lot of the "tongues" we hear are just total gibberish, a product of people getting into the flesh and not in the Spirit. I know the father of a girl who at age 14 prayed in Spanish for a man in the Dominical Republic. She prayed for his exact malady, and she did not know ANY Spanish. This is one example of legitimate tongues.

Cessationists do tend to have an issue with tongues. But again, most I have heard have said that the gift could still happen today, but it must be within Biblical parameters. I agree with them. I just see it as more common and more powerful in the life of a believer than they do. Again, not heresy.


_________________
Travis

 2024/2/6 13:29Profile
KervinM
Member



Joined: 2019/1/15
Posts: 391
South Africa

 Re:

Makes sense and I pardoned the thread title as I understood it to be the video's title there which I had not gotten to see yet. It is just unfortunate when you find brethren unalable to get on unless these differences are ironed out. Unfortunately, it does so appear that God is not there (in minor differences) - so it seems much like chasing the wind.

It seems plausible that God would leave these areas unclarified so that we keep looking at him who's knowledge is complete. As opposed to men who only know in part?

PS. So it is huge pride that we need to swallow and jointly go seek God amidst them.


_________________
Kervin

 2024/2/6 13:35Profile
KervinM
Member



Joined: 2019/1/15
Posts: 391
South Africa

 Re:

In case you had missed, brother Travis, our sister (from what I know to date) does not have the 'praying in tongues' in her theological phrases. And therefore cannot pray with you most probably lest you therein contaminate her with the "suspicious tongues praying spirit". How would you comment on that brother? Or is this not what I mean it gets bad?

Perhaps she'll understand you (if not already have). I say this so that you do not waste time thinking you are both on the same page as it is not so to my understanding.


_________________
Kervin

 2024/2/6 14:10Profile





All sermons are offered freely and all contents of the site
where applicable is committed to the public domain for the
free spread of the gospel.