“You see, that's the whole problem - He isn't the source, He IS our righteousness and sanctification.“

Evan, I am so blessed that we can agree on something at least!

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Mike

Yeah Mike, because after reading through the threads for the last few days in this horrendous excuse for a Christian forum... You and I agreeing on something is the actual issue (Ironically, the quote I disagreed with was verbatim from one of your posts, so no actually, we don't agree).

You have all been rejoicing to see sin in one another's lives, seeking to find it, in the hopes that you can all use it to prove a doctrine wrong.

Honestly, woe to you if you rejoice to see your brethren stumble.

If I was able to and still remain in obedience, I would be once again leaving this forum - as I did back in 2006.

Man no one can answer a simple question. That is always suspect.

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Todd

Todd,

Something that needs to be said, particularly to you:

“The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)

The answer is Jesus is my sanctification, that's what I mean.

and

“Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”” (John 3:3)

I beg you Todd, please take this verse to the Lord in prayer - don't not do it out of pride or some desire to be correct - seek the Lord with this as your topic, you will find Him.

Duplicate

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Mike

A true Christian doesn’t practice habitual sin but it isn’t sinless perfection.
This short video by Paul Washer is the balance of truth between habitual sin and sinless perfection.


https://youtu.be/I_RZ_pcM3YM?si=1gfZHiN9klKk2DcR

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Mike

If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1John 1:8.


As we know, good exegesis consists of using the inductive method, in taking many scriptures, and deriving a general conclusion from them. ‘The number, clarity and relevance of those many passages is crucial to the theological conclusions drawn. Building a doctrine on only one or two verses or passages which are unclear or not directly related to the issue, compromises the conclusion.’ (Olson: Beyond Calvinism and Arminianism, Introduction p4).

In the same letter we read:

He that commiteth sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8.

Whosoever abideth in Him sinneth not, whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him neither known Him John 3:6

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin 1 John 3:9

He that abideth in Him ought himself also to walk, as even as He walked 1 John 2:6

He that saith I know Him and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him. 1John 2:4

Little children, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

My little children, these things I write to you that you sin not. 1 John 2:1


John’s first letter was written to counteract the heresy which was affecting the church and was a treatise for Christians in general as there is no mention of a specific church as was contended by Lampe in his appeal to Theodoret.

The apostle is declaring to the whole world, his disapprobation of the doctrines maintained by the early or proto Gnostics who taught that Jesus was by birth a mere man but that 'the Christ' descended on Him at His baptism.’ These Gnostics, who taught that man could be righteous in spirit and still sin in the flesh, contended that the apostles had added commandments not given by Christ concerning the doctrine of sanctification. John devotes the greatest part of his epistle to the confirmation and enforcement of his doctrine.

We see that John is describing a process whereby we can test ourselves to see if we are in the true Light whereby the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin, and pointing out where the early Gnostic idea has been creeping in:

1:7 if we say we have no sin (as in Gnosticism, my insert) we deceive ourselves 1:8 but if we confess our sin, He will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Here John shows where the deceivers depart from the truth. Their teaching was that they had no need of this cleansing, as they did not consider immoral actions as sin due to matter being evil which was escaped through having ‘special’ knowledge and not in keeping God’s law. They maintained that a child of God could still sin and continue to have fellowship with God, a concept which was known as ‘spirit salvation’.

The early fathers on the other hand, taught that we must at least be on the road to theosis or union with Christ and this starts with Purification, or knowledge of the sin within, with the desire that we will be cleansed from all sin not that it might remain within. We can see that John is comparing walking in the light to walking in darkness that is, walking in the flesh compared to walking in the Spirit. He is describing two different opposing state which corresponds perfectly with the teaching of the Apostle Paul when he talks about the 'carnal' or fleshy, against those who were walking in the Spirit.


In verses 7 and 9, John says that the benefit of walking in the light are:-

1)We have fellowship with one another in the unity of the Spirit (agreement)
2)By confessing our sins we will be forgiven
3)We will then be cleansed by the blood of Jesus from all unrighteousness and sin.

Whereas if we walk in the flesh:-

1)We are deceived and remain in our sin
2)There is no truth in us
3)We make God a liar by denying our need for cleansing from all sin.

So John is saying that it is only when we are walking in the darkness that we are blind to our need of coming to Christ for His cleansing from all sin. The letter is to believers and not unbelievers. And believers can fall into the error of walking in the flesh as Paul demonstrated to the Galatians who thought that they could go on to maturity or perfection through the works of the law and not through faith.

Those who were being misled by the Gnosticism and today by the preachers of 'positional righteousness' were walking in darkness because they were still sinning and did not see their need of the cleansing which can be provided by Christ alone. So they thought that they had no sin to be dealt with and were acceptable as they were to be in fellowship with Christ, but John says that they walk in darkness. But if we see our need for cleansing from all sin and come to Christ then He will be able to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So it is these ones who are saying wrongly that they have no sin not the ones who have come to Christ and have been cleansed from all unrighteousness and are in union with Christ, or in the state of theosis. Brenda Redshaw 2022

I haven't watched the Paul Washer video, but if I was a wagering man, I would wager to say he said something about Jesus being the sole and all consuming goal of our lives.

Ironic how that can be mentioned, even in this thread, and sin and self still comes right back around and eclipses Him, as if sanctification was sinlessness in the first place.

Like I said, ALL in this forum need repentance.

I’m confronting folks who say they no longer sin and therefore I am not born again.

Makes perfect sense!

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Todd

Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound?

By no means!

How can we who died to sin still live in it?

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.

We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

For one who has died has been set free from sin.

Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.

We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.

Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.

For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Slaves to Righteousness

What then?

Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace?

By no means!

Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed?

For the end of those things is death.

But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life.

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Colin Murray