Poster | Thread | AbideinHim Member
Joined: 2006/11/26 Posts: 5185 Louisiana
| We Must Have Unity | | Today we are sharing a GH15 post that you have read before. We are having bad weather in our area with power outages, but did not want to be without a Wednesday post. Therefore, we are sharing one of our favorites from two years ago. Unity is always on God’s heart. Here is a great teaching regarding this subject.
We Must Have Unity - Dutch Sheets
The Charismatic Movement was a move of Holy Spirit that resulted in tens of millions of conversions around the world. There have been other outpourings of the Spirit in the last 60 years - some called them revivals - which touched individual nations. Then, of course, there have been movements of Holy Spirit which were primarily to restore truth to the church, rather than being evangelism-centered, such as the healing revival (of 1947-1958), the prayer movement, prophetic movement, apostolic movement, etc. I have been blessed to observe and be part of all these activities of Holy Spirit. Having been raised in church - in a ministry family, then in ministry myself - I have had a front-row seat, allowing the observation of restorations, revivals, trends, and movements.
While observing all of this, I have never seen a group of people discover fresh truth, shift in theology, implement new ideas, raise up new ministries, and do so perfectly. There is ALWAYS a learning curve as knowledge grows and methods change.
Those who began moving in the gifts of the Spirit (see 1 Corinthians 12), including gifts of healing and the workings of miracles, made mistakes as they launched out in faith. Yet, much good was accomplished with many people being healed. Those of us who began teaching new understandings of prayer made some errors, but incredible progress has been made. Deliverance ministries experienced some extremes, yet many people were set free. The Word of Faith movement experienced a few imbalances and extremes, yet through this movement, many people began to understand the importance of faith, our authority as believers and that God really does want to free people from poverty. Groups that emphasized discipleship struggled with control issues, yet an important truth was restored to the church’s understanding. As prophets and prophecy began to re-emerge in the church, mistakes, of course, were made. But one of the most important gifts of Christ to the church has been restored, bringing immeasurable fruit. As apostles and apostolic ministry were restored, extremes came, and errors were made. However, an incredibly important function of Christ in the church re-emerged. It is somewhat ridiculous to think that as principles and understandings - which were previously unknown or had been lost - are gained/regained, this will begin with full maturity. Knowledge grows. Truth unfolds. These things will always be a process.
When change regarding spiritual restorations and growth occurs, over time Holy Spirit brings things into balance and maturity. What is disheartening is the criticism, strife, and division generated by believers who don’t understand this process. Forerunners, pathfinders, and pioneers do not always find the right path on the first attempt. That’s why the process is called “finding.” Forerunners prepare the way because the way doesn’t yet exist. Does anyone really think this occurs without some messes, false starts, backing up, and adjusting course?
What is wrong with us that we allow a critical spirit to attack and divide us when this process is happening? What is it that motivates us to judge and slander fellow believers who attempt to move us forward in our thinking, yet make some mistakes along the way? This is none other than a pharisaical spirit. And it is a spirit that God does not like. Proverbs 6:16-19 lists seven things He hates. Many things that normally make the list of detestable things for the average believer aren’t on the list. Pride, however, which is certainly involved in believing one has the right to critique another’s performance, and “one who sows discord among brethren” is on the list.
To be sure, it is appropriate to confront heresy or error, but it is possible to do so in love and with a spirit of humility.
Our good friend, Barbara Yoder, shares some insightful thoughts regarding this problem. Please read and/or listen prayerfully.
“First of all, I want to say I know many leaders. Why am I saying that? From my direct experience with them, I believe most leaders have pure hearts toward God. They are seeking to do and be the right thing.
“The church is already entering into a time of revival and awakening. It has started, but we are only ankle-deep at this time. There’s coming a time shortly when we will dive into full revival, the deep end, over our heads (see Ezekiel 47).
“However, if we enter this time without becoming of one heart, one mind, one spirit, we will be blown apart. What is needed right now is a massive cleansing of each of our hearts, mine included, of anything that would cause this move of God to be hindered or possibly aborted.
“I believe we are in a season where one of the main things God is dealing with is a spirit of accusation which causes division. In recent years, the spirit of Jezebel has overtaken the nation and the church, which, among other things, discredits people and ministries through wrong accusations. Jezebel and Ahab wanted land that was owned by a man named Naboth (see 1 Kings 21). Therefore, she raised up false accusers to discredit Naboth in order to steal his inheritance (vineyard). And she was successful.
“To express anything to others that discredits another person, without ever going to the person directly, is operating in a spirit of accusation and division. It is prevalent in the body of Christ and has brought great hurt and wounding. God is beginning to deal with this spirit.
“Everything in God‘s kingdom is grounded in sound, healthy relationships. To allow a spirit of accusation and division to proliferate is totally antithetical to biblical truth.
“A worthless person, a wicked man, is the one who walks with a perverse mouth, who winks with his eyes, who signals with his feet, who points with his fingers; who with perversity in his heart continually devises evil, who spreads strife/discord” (Proverbs 6:12-14).
“To sow discord is to say and do things that cause distrust among people, which results in arguments and fights. It’s time to turn from anything that would divide the body of Christ. We need genuine, authentic, healthy relationships built on truthfulness and trust. Acts 3:19-21 says before revival/refreshing can come, repentance must occur. Let us turn fully back to God with our whole hearts.”
I’m grateful for Barbara’s words and challenge to us all. It’s time for us to have a heart check. Let’s ask Holy Spirit to help us walk before God with pure hearts.
“Who, then, is allowed to ascend the mountain of Yahweh? And who has the privilege of entering into God’s Holy Place? Those who are clean—whose works and ways are pure, whose hearts are true and sealed by the truth, those who never deceive, whose words are sure. They will receive Yahweh’s blessing and righteousness given by the Savior God. They will stand before God, for they seek the pleasure of God’s face” (Psalm 24: 3-5 TPT).
Pray with me:
Father, we are grateful that You are faithful to check our hearts. We do not want to give place to the enemy, allowing discord or offense to occur. Lord, we ask that You shine Your spotlight of conviction to any unswept corners of our hearts. We desire to have clean hands and pure hearts, being tools of unity and truth. We want to walk in the light - so shine Your light upon us, exposing our hearts and motives. Help us to always be willing to admit when we are wrong, allowing You to bring hope, harmony, and restoration to Your body. Show us our hearts Lord, and help us always to be instruments of Your healing and love.
We especially ask Your forgiveness for inappropriately speaking against other streams and movements in the church. Teach us to express our differences, even bring correction, without embracing a critical spirit. May we always remember that of all the characteristics of Your kingdom we are to walk in, the greatest will always be love. In Christ’s name, we pray, Amen.
Our decree:
We decree that we will be instruments of love and peace, not giving place to the enemy and his evil tactics.
Click on the link below to watch the full video.
https://youtu.be/CrEXYAKD4ZQ Barbara Yoder is the senior leader of Shekinah Church in Ann Arbor, Michigan. You can find out more about Barbara ,,here.
_________________ Mike
|
| 2024/1/10 6:57 | Profile | ESchaible Member
Joined: 2023/6/24 Posts: 548
| Re: We Must Have Unity | | From the article: "The Word of Faith movement experienced a few imbalances and extremes, yet through this movement, many people began to understand the importance of faith, our authority as believers and that God really does want to free people from poverty."
This reminds me of one government party trying to pass a bill, and the other government party only allowing it to pass if they get to include something of their own agenda within it. Sure, we will send humanitarian aid to the third world, but only if, within the bill, you also include carte blanche on abortion... And one good thing passes, and is spoiled by massive amounts of sin.
He really tried to just sneak that in there didn't he? This flies completely opposite of everything Jesus stood for... This one statement, in my estimation, completely delegitimizes everything else. That one point is like a miasma that infects all the rest.
“Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you. Your riches have rotted and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver have corroded, and their corrosion will be evidence against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have laid up treasure in the last days. Behold, the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, are crying out against you, and the cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord of hosts. You have lived on the earth in luxury and in self-indulgence. You have fattened your hearts in a day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the righteous person. He does not resist you.” (James 5:1-6)
“My brothers, show no partiality as you hold the faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory. For if a man wearing a gold ring and fine clothing comes into your assembly, and a poor man in shabby clothing also comes in, and if you pay attention to the one who wears the fine clothing and say, “You sit here in a good place,” while you say to the poor man, “You stand over there,” or, “Sit down at my feet,” have you not then made distinctions among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?” (James 2:1-5)
God wants to deliver men from poverty? Jesus called men TO poverty. This is where I sincerely believe that this age is seeing a completely different Jesus being preached. Makes you wonder about those scriptures that speak about denying the Son and not having the Father. I bet anyone holding to the doctrines in that article would say they don't believe in a Jesus that calls men to poverty... and in that denial... deny the Son of God.
My Jesus says "blessed are you poor".
I know this will all be written off as divisive, judgmental, critical, graceless; and to that I say so be it. "They went out from us because they were not of us".
|
| 2024/1/10 9:22 | Profile | ESchaible Member
Joined: 2023/6/24 Posts: 548
| Re: | | Everytime I reread that article more and more sticks out, there is so much wrong with it...
This talk of restoration of prophets, apostles, etc...
There was no restoration of those offices because those offices never went away. The "restoration" was that the religious arm of the world system finally found a way to integrate those titles and deceive yet more people. The snow ball effect is staggering when you really look at it. Once Satan gets his finger in one aspect of religion, and he gains a big enough majority, the next finger gets plunged in... Until finally... Jesus prophecy is being fulfilled right before our eyes.
What is staggering to me is that the "prophecies" of world sweeping revival coincide perfectly with the warnings of world sweeping apostasy throughout the old new testament.
Revival as taught today, is not in the Bible.
Just as staggering - how many people don't make this connection, especially in the light of what is now popular preaching and teaching.
The world doesn't need revival; it needs a moratorium on everything considered Christian until the true gospel can be preached and people don't equate it with the false nonsense being peddled daily all over the world - but especially in the United States and the west.
Interestingly, that seems to be the prophetic agenda for the last days... tribulation and judgment, and those overcoming by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony; the testimony of Jesus, which is the Spirit of prophecy.
|
| 2024/1/10 11:19 | Profile | AbideinHim Member
Joined: 2006/11/26 Posts: 5185 Louisiana
| Re: | | “What is wrong with us that we allow a critical spirit to attack and divide us when this process is happening? What is it that motivates us to judge and slander fellow believers who attempt to move us forward in our thinking, yet make some mistakes along the way? This is none other than a pharisaical spirit. And it is a spirit that God does not like. Proverbs 6:16-19 lists seven things He hates. Many things that normally make the list of detestable things for the average believer aren’t on the list. Pride, however, which is certainly involved in believing one has the right to critique another’s performance, and “one who sows discord among brethren” is on the list.
To be sure, it is appropriate to confront heresy or error, but it is possible to do so in love and with a spirit of humility.”
_________________ Mike
|
| 2024/1/10 13:49 | Profile | AbideinHim Member
Joined: 2006/11/26 Posts: 5185 Louisiana
| Re: | | “To express anything to others that discredits another person, without ever going to the person directly, is operating in a spirit of accusation and division. It is prevalent in the body of Christ and has brought great hurt and wounding. God is beginning to deal with this spirit.
“Everything in God‘s kingdom is grounded in sound, healthy relationships. To allow a spirit of accusation and division to proliferate is totally antithetical to biblical truth.
“A worthless person, a wicked man, is the one who walks with a perverse mouth, who winks with his eyes, who signals with his feet, who points with his fingers; who with perversity in his heart continually devises evil, who spreads strife/discord” (Proverbs 6:12-14).
“To sow discord is to say and do things that cause distrust among people, which results in arguments and fights. It’s time to turn from anything that would divide the body of Christ. We need genuine, authentic, healthy relationships built on truthfulness and trust. Acts 3:19-21 says before revival/refreshing can come, repentance must occur. Let us turn fully back to God with our whole hearts.”
_________________ Mike
|
| 2024/1/10 13:54 | Profile | narrowpath Member
Joined: 2005/1/9 Posts: 1522 Germany NRW
| Re: Superapostles | | Dear brother Mike,
I appreaciate many of your posts, but this one doesn't sit quite right with me.
First of all I do believe, there are prophets and apostles today, but they look very different. I also believe in healing, miracles and all that stuff.
When somebody claims to be an apostle or prophet or bishop, most likely they are not.
I went to Barbara Yoder's website and instinctively cringed at her statements about herself:
[Barbara J. Yoder is the founding and lead Apostle of Shekinah Christian Church, a racially and culturally diverse Church in Ann Arbor, Michigan. She serves on several boards of ministry nationally. Barbara leads Breakthrough Apostolic Ministries Network (BAMN), a network of pastors, ministry leaders and marketplace leaders.]
[Member of the Board of Governors for Christian International under the direction of Bishop Bill Hamon.]
Aha, you are pretty high up in the hierachy, good to have others under you, but you still need direction from yet another guy on top? Does it not look like a pyramid?
[Founder and Apostolic Leader of Breakthrough Apostolic Ministries Network (BAMN)] - breathtaking, I feel so small in comparison.
Are there female apostles in the bible? Are women supposed to lead, teach and preach in churches and have authority over men?
What do "market place leaders" have to do with the kingdom of God?
These organisations have some things in common. 1 person at the top on a stage with a mic in front of a crowd with raised hands. Who receives the worship? God, or do they perhaps covet to have a just a tiny little bit of the worship to themselves?
Global director with other "directors" underneath that imply that they have an even higher position and of course some lower level "staff" to serve.
"Sought after international speaker" Nice to be sought after.
Flashy buildings, dazzling multi media shows, PR campaigns, perhaps even Bible editions in their name.
And then they are always warning their critics: They are judgmental, have a Haman or Jezebel spirit, accuser of the brothers, enemy of unity and the like.
I have nothing against preachers and pastors becoming famous, but only few can handle the flattery and lime light and stay humble. Have we not seen enough men falling recently?
It is ok to have directors in business, but where is the "director" in the bible? There are elders and deacons, thats it, period. Yes, and there are apostles, but as soon as true leaders emerge under their care they withdraw themselves to make room for them and start something else.
The true apostle more likely than not lives in an unknown place, maybe in a village under a dictatorial regime, barely makes a living with his work. He does not dare to talk about his needs and ministers under constant danger to be reported to the authorities, Hecares for his family and spends the evenings looking after his flock. He prays for the sick and they get healed, he drives out demons and they get free, but keeps it as secret as possible. He raises local leaders, sheds many tears and moves on once the church stand halfway on its own legs.
When I study true men of God I see a very different picture:
They shun publicity Suffering, slander, persecution and adversary is part of their life. They do not strive to gain riches or prominence. They do not claim pompous titles, they just serve with what they have been given.
Paul founded many churches but he never gave himself the title of a Global Director of "Meditaranian Gentile Pioneer Apostolic Ministries". On the contrary, he had a controversy with self proclaimed super-apostles that lead to his temporary expulsion from the Corinthian church and he solved this problem with 2 masterfully written letters and many tears.
Superapostles promise freedom and breakthrough. Paul insisted to be taken captive to Rome. His companions were in and out of prison.
He experienced shipwrecks, beatings, imprisonments, court proceedings, escapes, abandonment, loneliness, betrayal and the like.
If there is ever going to be a true New Apostolic movement, I think it is going to be with men like Paul, Peter, James or John and many other sung and unsung heroes of all ages.
Paul describes in very clear language the ordeal he had with false apostles of super-apostles:
1. Cor 4: (Emphasis added) 6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us NOT TO THINK BEYOND what is written, that none of you may be [c]PUFFED up on behalf of one against the other. 7 For who [d]makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, WHY DO YOU BOAST AS IF YOU HAD NOT RECEIVED IT?
8 You are already full! You are already RICH! You have reigned as KINGS without us—and indeed I could wish you did reign, that we also might reign with you! 9 For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle [e]to the world, both to angels and to men. 10 We are fools for Christ’s sake, but you are wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are DISTINGUISHED, but we are dishonored! 11 To the present hour we both hunger and thirst, and we are poorly clothed, and beaten, and homeless. 12 And we labor, working with our own hands. Being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we endure; 13 being defamed, we [f]entreat. We have been made as the filth of the world, the offscouring of all things until now.
and also 2 Corinthians 11
Do you see my point?
|
| 2024/1/10 14:37 | Profile | AbideinHim Member
Joined: 2006/11/26 Posts: 5185 Louisiana
| Re: | | Brother, I do appreciate the spirit in which you posted, for you made some good points concerning apostles and prophets, and I agree with you for the most part. I believe that there are many in the Body of Christ today that are calling themselves apostles and prophets that are not called as such, but I also believe that there are true apostles and prophets in the church today. I really do appreciate Dutch sheets and his Give Him 15 daily devotional, because of his heart of intercession for the Church, revival, and America, and I also want to thank you for your comments. I am 73 years old. I know the Word and the voice of the Spirit, but I have little patience with those that move in a critical, judgmental spirit.
_________________ Mike
|
| 2024/1/10 15:12 | Profile | narrowpath Member
Joined: 2005/1/9 Posts: 1522 Germany NRW
| Re: | | Hi Mike,
I also perceive a gentle spirit in your reply. I think we just have to live with the fact that their are gradiends and shades of grey where a clear cut is sometimes impossible.
I can glean from guys like Dutch Sheets and others but then I am sometimes perplexed what kind of guys they hang out with and what sort of 3rd party material and ministries they promote.
This reminds me of Paul rebuking Peter, who hung out with Judaizers and fell into their sin. He then publically rebuked Peter for that but otherwise they maintained a relationship of mutual respect. |
| 2024/1/10 16:20 | Profile | brothagary Member
Joined: 2011/10/23 Posts: 2556
| Re: | | Great post Mike thanks for sharing that. ✝️🙏 |
| 2024/1/10 23:04 | Profile |
|