| Getting along with our Gifts.|
Maybe we should look at the gifts, so we can all appreciate other's more.
I'm not trying to teach here, But I just wish we could see where we are used and where others are and respect the 'differences' in each other (Church wide) and why our 'burdens' may be different, etc. etc.
This may not be for Cesstationists though.
First the gifts in Romans 12 ~
(Gosh, I tried to see which verses I wanted to put up and now I feel I'd like to put up that whole Chapter.)
Anyhow ~ I'll just put these few ...
[b] ~ ROMANS 12 ~ The 7 "Motivational" Gifts.
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Rom 12:7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
Rom 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that showeth mercy, with cheerfulness.
Rom 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.[/b]
It's said, that each one of us has one (sometimes more) of these gifts, which basically gives us a 'burden' that is 'particular to or specific to that gift'.
*Prophecy, *Ministry =(Aid or Service), *Teaching, *Exhorting, *Giving, *Administrating =("To be over." - 'ruleth' in KJV), and *Mercy.
Paul continues on, directly from the gifts, to Love again and how to get along. Just as he does in 1Corth. 12-14.
The general feeling, you come away with is, to Respect each other's differing motivational gifts and be open to them. Without thinking that our gift is better than or more important than, someone elses. (12:3)
It's one running dialogue, as almost always is the case with Scripture.
With the motivational gifts, there is, (as with all else) - the 'plus side' of the motivational gift and the 'negative side' of it.
When in the Spirit, a Giver will give more than most usually do ... but when in the flesh, they may give the shirt off their back at the Grocery store ... Ha.
Givers can't understand why everyone else doesn't give as much as they do.
That is why they are called "motivational gifts" ... it's what motivates folks to do what they do and think as they think.
A person with the Gift of Mercy, is Wonderful in the Spirit ... but when in the flesh, they'll compromise on things in the Church or in others, that they shouldn't compromise on, Scripturally and will have a hard time with some of the things that teachers or prophets may say. But they'll seldom 'argue' about it.
So goes it with all these gifts. It's what drives them, it's how they see things, they can't understand why others can't see those things 'as they do', but that's why it's important for us to know what our motivational gift or gifts are, and to respect or 'see' in others, what theirs may be, so we'll understand each other better and make room for the expression of their gifts.
And when they go overboard on their gift, to not judge them as 'bad' people, because WE ALL can and do have days when we are not "walking in the Spirit". But don't judge by that ... just because you don't like what someone else is saying or doing (as long as it's not heresy or sin). Maybe you're just not in the Spirit that day ? Maybe tomorrow you'll view it differently.
Just give whatever it is to God. He's still working on all of us.
[b]~ Ephesians 4 ~ The 5 "Ministerial" (or 'Calling') Gifts.
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, [u]apostles[/u]; and some, [u]prophets[/u]; and some, [u]evangelists[/u]; and some, [u]pastors[/u] and [u]teachers[/u][/b]
I think these are pretty self explanatory.
A person can have more than one of these callings.
There are Pastor/Teachers - Pastors/Evangelists - Pastors/prophets - and so on.
An Apostle is just one who feels led to start multiple Churches. So here you could have an Evangelist/Apostle, Pastor/Apostle , etc.
Like the Motivational Gifts, they are "their burden". And they are also the only two sets of gifts that are 'resident' or 'resides' in the person.
The Motivational Gifts and the Ministerial Gifts are in the person and makes them who they are, and gives their specific 'burden'.
The 5 Ministerial (or Calling) Gifts in eph. 4, are the only gifts not given to all. But that doesn't mean that a Pastor or whatever should look down on those with the other gifts. A Pastor may need someone with a motivational gift of prophecy in his Fellowship .. God knows best and all believers should be given the freedom to be used.
[b] ~ 1 Corth 12 ~ The 9 Manifestation Gifts.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the [u]word of wisdom[/u]; to another the[u] word of knowledge[/u] by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another [u]faith[/u] by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of [u]healing[/u] by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of [u]miracles[/u]; to another [u]prophecy[/u]; to another [u]discerning of spirits[/u]; to another [u]divers kinds of tongues[/u]; to another the [u]interpretation of tongues[/u]:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.[/b]
These 9 gifts are Not Resident, as are the Motivational gifts or Ministerial gifts.
God in vs. 11 does the deciding, who, which and when a person is used in these.
He can use a person in just one, or all 9. He knows best.
He could use a person in one this year and then never again, but chose to use them in another instead, because they're just available.
He may start by just using them in "Interpretation" and then see, that the vessel is yielded enough to go to prophecying later.
Or again, He can and has used some in all, at one time or another. As "He" wills. We cannot "will" these gifts into action, by our own command.
They are a "for that moment" type situation, where God sees a yielded vessel that he can use for the need of that moment.
In Chapter 14 Paul discusses the 'Use' and non-abuse of the gifts.
But "sandwiched" between his discussion on the Gifts, he put in Chpt. 13 - about Love again. Paul knew to stick Love between the gifts so often, because it is when our gifts "collide" and we don't make Love and respect for each other's gifts a priority,that, that's when we'll not get along too well ... and the Purpose of the gifts, in the first place, is to "Build up the Body".
Not cause Gang Wars. Ha !
All the Mercy folks, against the Prophets or vice versa - etc. ha.
And considering that each person may very well have, or be used in, multiples of the three groups above,(as God wills), that could get rather "Jumbled up", when you have a whole big gang of folks together. :-)
Each stressing their burden or viewpoint from the focus of their own gift(s).
We all may be looking at the same Picture, but just from different views (gifts).
We can't and should never feel we don't need each other, because that would be 'renting or tearing HIS body apart'..
But don't 'focus' on [u]your own gift[/u], (that leads to arrogance and will mess up your gift.), but focus on The Giver as He called Himself, "Servant".
And I feel it's very wrong to also go around telling people what your gift Is. (ie. "I'm a Teacher" or "I'm a Prophet" or "I have Mercy", etc.)
Try to be humble in that area and Keep that between you and God.
We just must try to be patient with and most of all respect each other's gifts (because GOD gave it to them) and know that above all else, 1Corth 13 ... and that no gift is better than or higher than another's.
We need all and each other.
| 2005/8/2 21:43|
| Re: Getting along with our Gifts.|
That's quite a comprehensive outline you posted. Thanks.
I have found that gifts are like tools in a tool box. They only benefit someone if they are used to accomplish work. Personally, I think it's time we stopped admiring the tools and began the task to taking back this country for Christ. Then we will see the tools put to their intended task, and we won't have time to sit around and try to figure out who has what.
All His best,
| 2005/8/3 7:26|
| Re: ?|
That's quite a comprehensive outline you posted. Thanks.
I have found that gifts are like tools in a tool box. They only benefit someone if they are used to accomplish work.
Personally, I think it's time we stopped admiring the tools and began the task to taking back this country for Christ. Then we will see the tools put to their intended task, and we won't have time to sit around and try to figure out who has what.
Lahry, how did you get this 3rd part, out of what was posted ??? :-?
Who's admiring who's tools ?
Now ya got me so confused, I don't know which Smilie to use .... Ha !
First it sounded like ya liked the idea of what I was 'trying to say' about "respecting each other more and being more patient with each other because of ...." ... but then it sorta sounded sour after that.
I think I said [u]not[/u] to focus on your own gift but on The Giver. Or did I forget to add that ? I can't see the post from here, right now.
We're Not to "sit around and try to figure out who has what." :-?
I sure didn't mean that. But just to stay open to each other.
And could you let me in on your secret on how to "take back this country" ?
I'd sure like to hear that one.
Hey, just for fun, I thought I'd post this too. http://mintools.com/spiritual-gifts-test.htm
It's sort of fun. So far it's worked on my husband and friends, pretty accurately.
But it ONLY WORKS if you are Painfully Honest.
Tell me your results Lahry .. :lol: .. I wanna see what tools we've got to work with, after ya become President or something. 8-)
Only playing with you brother ... it's just your Re: confused me. But then again, I'm easily confused anyhowz.
Hope ya have a Happy day in Jesus.
| 2005/8/3 8:05|
| Re: Hey Grannie|
I apologize. I must have come across really short because I was actually short on time when I posted what I did.
We can take back this country, when we begin to walk in obedience to God. Ghandi of India said that if christians would only live like the bible says, India could be won over to christianity in one day. That's over a billion people. Would this not work also in the USA? Just curious.
I guess the sharpness of my comment stems from many years in the "charasmatic experience". Emphasis was put on gifts, gifts, gifts, gifts. I personally have not witnessed many people who benefited from these "gifts". Furthermore, where all the emphasis is on the Holy Spirit, you can rest assured, He is not among them. Why? Because Jesus said that when He comes, He would testify of Jesus.
The awesome David Wilkerson wrote a wonderful piece on this called "Christless Pentecost". You can look it up and read it if you like. It is online. I apologize for not having the link.
My concerns are that when someone wants to explain the "gifts", without emphasis on the ministry that would utilize the "gifts", then I question where is the purpose or lack there of.
But I assure you, it is not in me to be rude to anyone, especially christian ladies. So again, I apologize if I seemed that way to you. Please forgive me.
Yours in Christ,
| 2005/8/3 17:16|
That was such a nice post, and please don't feel I deserved or felt an apology, of all things, was even in my mind, at all.
I just wondered what you meant, and wasn't sure, if you approved or didn't, by how it went.
So very much of what you've just said, is exactly how I feel.
My reason for writing it, again, was not to glorify the 'gifts', but to edify the Body.
That is what the gifts are for, but my #1 point of writing that, was so we'd see our differences in a more understanding light.
Many times, misunderstandings can come about in a discussion, but it is only because it's a brother with a gift of Teaching, and a sister with the gift of Mercy, may think the teaching is too hard. Etc, Etc.
That's when the gifts "collide", and that was the origin of the reason, of why I wanted to write that ... not to over-emphasize the gifts.
Actually, all the 'smilies' was because I thought your first post was funny ... in that, I was confused by how it seemed like a dual opinion or response.
I've gotten DWs Newsletters etc. for 28 yr.s, so I've probably read it. We followed him closely for all those years. Even before TSC, when he was still with Keith Greene.
I totally agree, the Holy Spirit and we, are Christocentric ... or at least we should be.
And like you, feel, 'that' is what the gifts are for. To point folks to Christ and also to 'build up His Body'.
I don't believe you were 'rude' in the slightest, and please know I took absolutely no offense ... I really was giggly, because I was merely confused.
I like your posts and this one, but I'll hold off on my opinion of "this nation", till I can gather my words/heart better. I get teary eyed on that subject, and right now, I couldn't handle that. Thanks.
Much love to you Brother.
| 2005/8/3 21:34|
| Sorry, touchy subject with me.|
to taking back this country for Christ.
Please tell me what this means?
I actualy hate this term. It sounds like "Kingdom Now" theology
First of all, I think this is futile for we are doomed already (Read revalations). No one can take back this country for Christ. It will never be a "Christian nation again as it was in the founding of it. Why didn't the Apostles take their land back? And so, if you could take back this country for Christ, why stop there, take the whole world back for Christ sake. (no curse intended)
all we should be concerned about is preaching Christ and Him crucified, and [u][b]HE[/b][/u] will draw all men to HIMself
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
And not to forget His resurrection
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1Corinthians 15:14, 15 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, [b]unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; [/b]
| 2005/8/4 17:19||Profile|
| Re: Sorry, touchy subject with me.|
I agree and withdraw the comment. What I should have said was take back our churches for Christ.
| 2005/8/4 19:47|
| 2005/8/4 20:06||Profile|
Where is this notion found in Scriptures that differing giftings will sometimes cause people to butt heads with eachother e.g mercy in conflict with the prophetic?
| 2005/8/4 22:20||Profile|
Logic and Lahry ~
"Take back our Churches" ~ [u]Alleluia and thumbs up ![/u]
Welllllllll, King Jimmy, Was Paul gifted ? and was Barnabas gifted ?
But how many times do you see him messed with by brethren and didn't even all of Asia forsake Paul ? Were there none there with the gifts ?
Act 15:35 Paul also and Barnabas continued in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also.
Act 15:36 And some days after Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, and see how they do.
Act 15:37 And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark.
Act 15:38 But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work.
Act 15:39 [u]And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other[/u]: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus;
Act 15:40 And Paul chose Silas, and departed..
For chpt.s prior to this, they worked together and it was Barnabas who endorsed Paul in Acts 9:27 - But Barnabas took him (Paul), and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
Why did one want John Mark and the other didn't, if they were always basically 'led' by the Holy Spirit prior to this ? and they being both major gifted.
Even in the O.T., look at what Aaron and Miriam did to Moses. It's said that Miriam was a prophetess Ex 15:20, and Aaron was Moses' sorta 'mouthpiece', but she and Aaron didn't think well of Moses' authority for a time and she had a leprous experience with the Lord because of it. (Even though she prior had led all the women in Song.)
We can't always see other's gifts or leadings or burdens from God, that others see, so contentions can come on or from that basis.
Experientially, I've seen this happen in the Body, more than can be numbered.
Prophets are either hated or loved ... no, in between .... Scripturally.
Take any Preacher or Teacher you know, and see if you can't find someone who doesn't say, "He's too judgmental, or negative, or legalistic, etc."
Yet the Word says, ALL believers have "gifts" of one kind or another, and many times, a gift of Mercy can usually only see to pamper the sheep, (which is Great, when that is the Need of the hour). Mercy is better than sacrifice, and blessed are the merciful - for they shall obtain mercy, but what if You see it's time for correction, or reproof and a "mercy-filled" person can't see your point of view, heads may butt.
To cut each other more "slack", when 'contention' comes, I'd rather look on the least incriminating causes, then to just say, "Oh, they're just carnal, immature, not "in the spirit", and ETC., with the multiple charges folks throw at each other, or judgments we can make on others in our own thinking.
I just like to see us cut each other more slack, and say, their "burden is just different from mine" ... and Not - "they're wrong and I'm right"... because my burdens from God are not my best friend's, or even my husband's.
Your burden from God, is obviously not that of all the other Christians in your area.
But if you still doubt it happens, look at the Church or Forums.
| 2005/8/5 0:43|