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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Interpretating and grammar Greek

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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Hi GrannieAnnie
You are obviously comfortable with the Greek. Do you have any comments to make on the fact that your present participle in John 3:16 is preceded by the definite artilce and its implications?

The transliterated Greek would be John 3:16 OutoO gar eOgapeOsen o Theos ton kosmon, oOste ton uion autou ton monogeneO edoOken, [u]ina pas o pisteuoOn[/u] eis auton meO apoleOtai, all echeO zoOeOn aioOnion This section translated literally would read something like 'so that everyone 'the one' believing'. This form of the definite article plus the present participle is found eg in Matt 4:3 where is it translated 'the tempter' and in John 1:29 where the phrase 'which taketh away' could be interpreted 'the taker away'. Newberry has written that the 'present participle with the nominative' implies the 'doing one' or the 'do-er' reflecting permanent character. The John 3:16 has both words 'o pisteuoOn' in the nominative case.

I think David Pawson, who is a very well known English (not American, Jonathan.) bible teacher, is absolutley right in the implications he is drawing from John 3:16, (from the quote we have via babelfish) I do not know this particular publication but Pawson's work is always marked by scrupulous care and attention to detail. (Not that I always agree with him. ;-) ) I suspect that what he is doing in this passage is dismantling the view that an individual 'act of faith' - the faith event - guarantees eternal security. I have tried to do the same in an article that Greg has made available here on SI called [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=14601]Receiving Christ.[/url] (Jonathan, I did not know Pawson's view when I wrote this but I think you will find similarities)

Annie, (if you allow a Grandad using the familiar term?) you have written Some other "present active participles" are in John 10 ... "My sheep are "hear-ing" My Voice and "follow-ing Me" ... continuous action of 'hearing' Him, then following. He'll never let you down, son of His. I presume this is from John 10:27. Which Greek text are you following here? The Byzantine has 'akouei' which is a simple present tense. 'akolouthousin' could be read as either participle or 3 pers. pl. pres. indic: I think to match the akouei it is much more likely to be NOT present participles but the simple present tense. Certainly the Greek simple present tense is more akin to our present continuous, but the participle brings in a different feel altogether, particularly when following a definite article in the nominative case.

I think these are characteristics too of 'my sheep' rather than promises to them. In other words 'my sheep' are indentifiable by the fact that they 'hear and follow'.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/8/4 6:21Profile
Warrior4Jah
Member



Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re:

Thank you for your kind reply [b]Annie[/b]!
Really your reply is very helpful even though you didn't post 25 pages of Greek!
Yes I might get alot answers, but still I need His anwser. Thank you for pointing towards that. :-)

A funny detail is that the church I go to is named 'Berea'.(Now does God have humour or what :-P) I also asked the man who God used to reach me on a biblecamp what he has been praying for me each day.
He prayed that I would get into His Word, daily seeking Him wanting to know more and more about Him and really getting to know Him..

And now this reply from you, thats very special! :-)

Quote:
Now, the Lord has told me, in no uncertain terms .... "Point them to ME and MY WORD, and give them a HUNGER FOR THE WORD, because before Me, they are responsible, to allow MY Holy Spirit, to guide them into all truth.


I love you for saying that and I can really see that your reply has been based upon that! :-)

@ [b]philologos[/b], thank you for your reply! I've read the article and it does have its simularities with David's view.

Quote:
I suspect that what he is doing in this passage is dismantling the view that an individual 'act of faith' - the faith event - guarantees eternal security.



We can ask ourselves if we have the chance to live out our choice. There has to be a moment where you decide you will or need to follow Christ. I had them on given points.
I did discover that you can 'follow' Christ for various reasons, the right reason leads to fellowship with Christ and being urged to get into Christ.

However I felt unable to follow Christ till He broke my habitual sin which made me very unable to follow God at all. I feared God untill then even tho I had moments where I chose for Him as I knew I was not following Him.
When Jesus had set me free I could follow Him!

I don't know for sure if I still would be saved if I would go astray again (if I ever could at all), but I sure don't want to take my chances on that and live a life for self. (That just gets you into trouble) No, I will stick on God instead. And in case I sin again I know that Jesus will be fully able to forgive me if I repent that sin.

Walk in His Truth and on His way so He can bless your lives!


_________________
Jonathan Veldhuis

 2005/8/4 9:26Profile





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