Here is a portion of an article that I think should be of great concern and should lead to serious consideration of cause, solutions and actions. As a personal aside and by a lot of personal experience, in foreign settings, the situation is probably much worse.
Summary of estimates about unsaved believers

To summarise these numbers, here are the percentages of unsaved Christian believers, or church members, as stated by the various people:

50% (or more) are not saved:

– Dr. Rod Bell, president of the Fundamental Baptist Fellowship of America

– Bob Jones Senior, US evangelist, pioneer religious broadcaster and founder of Bob Jones University

– Dr. Monroe Parker, US Baptist evangelist, college president, and mission board director

– George Barna, former Executive Director of the American Culture & Faith Institute

– Bill Bright, US evangelist, author and founder of Campus Crusade for Christ

– George Truett, former president of the US Southern Baptist Convention

– R.G. Lee, former pastor of Bellevue Baptist Church in Memphis, Tennessee

– E. J. Daniels, US Southern Baptist pastor, evangelist and broadcaster

65% are not saved:

– Vance Havner, US Southern Baptist pastor and travelling evangelist

75% are not saved:

– Dr. B. R. Lakin, US Baptist preacher and evangelist

– W. A. Criswell, former president of the US Southern Baptist Convention

– Dr. Bob Gray, long-time pastor of Trinity Baptist Church of Jacksonville, Florida

– Dr. Dan Hawtree, a respected evangelist who is best known in Florida

80% are not saved:

– Shelton Jones, broadcaster and minister from North Carolina

– Dr J. Harold Smith, US Southern Baptist, evangelist and broadcaster

85% are not saved:

– Dr. Billy Graham, US evangelist (although there is no clear record of him saying this)

90% are not saved:

– Dr. A. W. Tozer, US pastor, author, magazine editor, and spiritual mentor

– Jim Elliff, Southern Baptist consultant, president of Christian Communicators Worldwide

– D. L. Moody, 19th century US evangelist and founder of the Moody Bible Institute

– R. A. Torrey, US evangelist and pastor

95% (or maybe 98%) are not saved:

– Leonard Ravenhill, English evangelist and author

Almost 100% are not saved

– Richard Hole, an Australian concerned that mainstream Christianity is not working

Please note that the men who think that the least number are actually saved who profess Christianity are men who are charismatic..... DL Moody, RA Torrey, Tozer, and Leonard Ravenhill. I only add this because many on the list are Baptist or conservative fundamentalist.

Something is seriously wrong in the approach to church if the tares outnumber the wheat ten to one. How in the world can a goat who loves the world in all that means feel comfortable amongst the sheep who hate sin and love righteousness in lip and life ? How can we preach towards maturity when even the elementary things of the faith have no meaning to a natural man who cannot understand the things of the Spirit ? How can we urge the people who go to church towards greater intimacy with Jesus when they think and say they know Him but, as Scripture says, they are liars.

Don't get me wrong, I want everyone of the false or pretenders to be saved with all my heart and I work at it night and day in difficult places. The quick and easy acceptance by the faithful of the doubtful though is such a hindrance to actually getting people saved inside the professing church.

Is this a small issue relative to getting the world saved ? Not in the least. How can you bring new born believers who need to be raised to maturity into a church filled by a super majority of unsaved people ? It's insanity. Paul was seriously concerned about the health of the Corinthian brothers and sisters from an unrepentant believer remaining within the body and the deleterious and sin infecting effect that would have on the rest of the faithful. That concern was over the harmful and damaging presence of one unrepentant sheep. What about 90% tares who become spiritual mentors and examples to a new born Christian ?

And, please don't quote the Scripture about leaving the wheat to grow with the tares. That parable addresses the world as the "field", not the church.

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Robert

Was there any definition of “saved?”

I ask because there is a very large continuum. The thief on the cross was saved, so was the Apostle Paul.

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Todd

Hi Todd,

None given in the article. What's interesting to me is that most of those quoted or accounted for were evangelist by ministry which is noteworthy. I'm trusting in the discernment of men like Graham, Tozer, Moody, RA Torrey and Ravenhill who really have a deep and full heart for initial conversions and not only a desire for maturity and holiness.

As an aside but on point, here is Jesus speaking to a church where there was a mixture of pure and impure. It's difficult to tell from this text whether He is addressing true believers who have soiled their clothes or speaking to false professors within the body. If it's the former He addresses then it makes the point I'm getting at even stronger.


“Write to the angel of the church in Sardis: Thus says the one who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars: I know your works; you have a reputation for being alive, but you are dead. 2 Be alert and strengthen what remains, which is about to die, for I have not found your works complete before my God. 3. Remember, then, what you have received and heard; keep it, and repent. If you are not alert, I will come like a thief, and you have no idea at what hour I will come upon you. 4 But you have a few people in Sardis who have not defiled their clothes, and they will walk with me in white, because they are worthy.

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Robert

" For the gate is narrow and the way is constricted that leads to life, and there are FEW who find it."

I think these words brings out the importance of not saying "well brother so and so, or sister such and such does this or that so it must be alright."

What I mean by this is following Jesus is constricting for this life. But if we follow Him on this constricting path we will have pressure from those even in the church fellowship on the wide path to come over with them. And that article you have put up and the words of Jesus indicate a large percentage of "church goer's" are lost.

Another thing that I do is test myself. Am I one of the few or am I one of the many? It is a serious thing to ask ourselves!

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Steve

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.


Major Ian Thomas
(prominent military figure closing WWll)
Has a meaty sermon on the “grain of wheat”


As far as I can find, the separation between the “institutional church” and the Body of Christ, is those that are referred to as “unsaved or unregenerate” have not been crucified with Christ, as such they have not yet experienced the new birth. These tend to orient around tasks being measured by pragmatism. It’s essentially a business model that not only relies heavily upon material data from corporate sources, but also lacks any ability to exist outside the obvious dependence on the world, employing its methods and means to attract people.

Where as the body is oriented around its head, Christ.
His method is faith and His means is grace.

Another interesting commonality between the list of saved ministers is in sharp contrast with the “institutional ones” is their personal orientation.
The saved ones are Christ facing, while the “institutional ones” face the institution.
It can sometimes be subtle in that the academic expertise demonstrated by institutional adherents is formidable, the intimacy demonstrated by the saved one’s experience is unmistakable to someone whom has experienced the death/rebirth.
Likewise, when someone is baptized with the Holy Spirit, this too produces a likemindedness with those who have intimate experience of such.

My wife and I, having discussed this subject at length two nights ago, concluded that (as far as we can see) there are 3 distinct steps outlined by Paul;

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me

4 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.


Paul was crucified with Christ,
The world s crucified unto him,
….”and I” unto the world -
It’s the last part that allot of well saved , born again believers aren’t aware of as a contextual reality. Meaning in their world view, they don’t have any other option other than to be a slave to this world. For them, the instructions they received were, from inception, institutional in nature and therefore incapable of bringing forth fruit unto God. Yet they were told that they were fruitful by the institution. It’s behavior modification more than spiritual rebirth. It has a form of godliness in that it is well ordered and is generally sincere in the attempts to adhere to the doctrines. Tho after decades of people not being discipled but only evangelized … the lack of maturity lead to an artifice, a fake faced smiling church culture, complete with all the pomp and fare of a worldly event.
It has become, in many ways, narcissistic… tho this is nothing new- it’s humanism 101.

I believe that Katz, Wilkerson and others were more accurate in their view than I had imagined, more literal than I had initially understood…
They all seemed to sense that the persecution, when it comes, would come from the other end of the pew….

As the Body of Christ begins to become articulate under the Headship of Christ moving in coordination by way of the Holy Spirit, the separation from the institution will be undeniable. And those who live godly lives, shall be persecuted, for they are not oriented towards the world , its vision, its voice, its values,… but to His voice, His kingdom, as His Bride 🙏🏻

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Fletcher

At the end of 1 John, John says by the Spirit that :

"I have written these things to you who "believe" in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

Previous to this verse, John says those that have the son have life.

So the gist of the book of 1 John and the texts of John 13-17 is that the Holy Spirit wants people in the churches who say they believe to actually know they
have the Son (born again and indwelling "life") and have eternal life.


All of this to say, I'm not bashing the people in the pews or even the leaders. I'm trying to assert that for the health and perseverance of the body and for the sake of those who are ignorant or deceive, which is many, shouldn't we be making an all out effort in the last days as they are to help people discern and evaluate themselves to see if they are in the faith ? Seems like what love would dictate and motivate we do. And I don't mean merely the pastors. Discipling should be first and foremeost about helping someone figure out truly if they have life.

I am not making this into armchair commentary. There is a serious problem in literally hundreds of assemblies where I have been. Many have a false sense of well being and now is not the time to just let them be led down the broad road unaware.

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Robert

This was a podcast sermon or sharing by Francis Chan this week. Really good for this time. Covering a few topics discussed on the forum of late and things to come in the near future.


https://crazylove.podbean.com/e/when-we-stand-before-god-francis-chan/

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Robert

You wrote; “All of this to say, I'm not bashing the people in the pews or even the leaders. I'm trying to assert that for the health and perseverance of the body and for the sake of those who are ignorant or deceive, which is many, shouldn't we be making an all out effort in the last days as they are to help people discern and evaluate themselves to see if they are in the faith ? Seems like what love would dictate and motivate we do. And I don't mean merely the pastors. Discipling should be first and foremeost about helping someone figure out truly if they have life.”

Yes, and just the other night after viewing a few minutes of a clip sent to me, the gravity of how bad it has gotten, slapped me in the face. And yes there is a fine line because how this “intervention” is handled has grave consequences due to the seriousness you point out.

The only way I can find in scripture is for us to be individually aligned under the direct headship of Christ. Being organized and articulated by His spirit as a spiritual organism. He being the source, the means, and the ends of our faith🙏🏻

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Fletcher