It totally grieves me what I read here.
This is not my Jesus and the Jesus of the Bible.
My Jesus came from heaven to earth my price to pay.
He is my Lord, my Saviour.
He is my advocate (1 John 2:1)
He who is at the right hand of God, is still interceding for me (Rom 8:34)
To say "he was nothing but a container" shocks me deeply.
Paul talks about the "unsearchable riches of Christ"(Ephesians 3:8)
Paul preached Christ and Him crucified.

"Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated, common men, they were astonished.
And they recognized that they had been with Jesus."(Acts 4:13)
Peter and John probably didn't know much about theology, but they knew the true Jesus.

I'm so grieved that it might take me a while to respond to some possible comments and questions.

"In Christ alone my Hope is found..."

Markus

John 5:19 "The Son can do nothing of himself, and of my own self I can do nothing." The human Jesus had no power of His own.

John 5:31-33. "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." Jesus didn't bear his own witness.

John 5:43. "I am come in my Father's name." Jesus did not come in his own name.

John 6:38. "I came not to do my own will." He did not do his own will.

John 6:57. "I live by the Father." He didn't have his own life.

John 7:16. "My doctrine is not mine." Jesus didn't have a doctrine or teaching of his own.

John 7:28. "I am not come of myself." The Father sent him.

John 8:16. "If I judge, my judgment is true; for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me." His judgment was not his own.

John 8:28-29. "I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me, I speak these things." He didn't learn from himself, and he didn't teach himself.

John 8:50. "I seek not mine own glory." His glory is not His.

John 8:54. "If I honor myself, my honor is nothing." He doesn't honor himself.

John 12:49. "I have not spoken of myself." Jesus didn't speak his own words.

John 14:10. "I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwelleth in me He doeth the works." His works were not His own works.

John 14:9, "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father."

Philippians 2:6. "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

Heb 2:16-18, "For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted."

Heb. 4:14-16, "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

Before Christ was born on this earth He had emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. Philippians 2:5-11

He lived His life here on earth as a 100% human person. He had been tempted in every way, just as we are - yet He did not sin. Heb. 4:15. He lived a life of another. He lived by the Father's life inside Him and by the faith of the Father. He never lived a life of His own or as an independent self. He was just a vessel and a container, just like us. He was made like us in all aspects and every way. Heb. 2:17

He was sent likeness of sinful flesh. Rom 8:3

He was righteous only because He contained God's Righteousness. He was Holy only because He contained God's Holiness. He was perfect only because of God's perfection within Him. He did not even consider Himself Good because His Goodness came from the Father. Mark 10:18

John 10:37-38, "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

John 14:10-11, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of Myself; but the Father that dwelleth in Me, He doeth the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the very works' sake."

Christ did all His work in the power of the Father dwelling and working in Him. So complete and real was His dependence on the Father, that, in expounding it to the Jews, He used the strong expressions (v.19, 30)John 5:19, 30: The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father doing'; I can do nothing of Myself.' As literally as what He said is true of us, Apart from Me ye can do nothing,' is it true of Him too. The Father abiding in Me doeth the work.'

John 14:12-14,"Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."

Christ Himself did NOTHING from His own initiative or self effort. Everything He did was in response to the Father living and working within him. I wonder why we think we can do something from our own self when Christ did and could not.

Even Christ pleased not Himself - (Romans 15:3

John 5:30; "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

The person of Jesus Christ who is NOW indwelling us is our Sabbath rest. Now it is the indwelling God, the Father abiding in us, that God works in us. It is HIS life within us that accomplishes His work.

Jesus Christ was totally dependent on His Father and overcame all temptation just by simply resting. He was never concerned about obedience or disobedience. He put forth no effort to obey the law at all. The Live and divine nature of His Father accomplished all that within Christ. He had no sufficiency in Himself nor could He.

Amen Vern.

The Lord has been speaking to me about His humility, and it is most profoundly stated in His life on earth. These are the teachings that set our God apart from idols, that He came to earth and lived a human life to ransom us from the one who took us captive. The God who allowed Himself to be crucified for His people, and bore upon Himself our sin, and rose again to victory. The one who loved us, and gave Himself for us.

Thank you Vern for bringing these things back up, it plucked my pride at first again as natural man recoils a bit at these things thinking "what will people think if we state it as Jesus did". But the words of Jesus are the words of eternal life, the words that give us a glimpse behind the veil, as it were, to the life every believer is called to live. I had started down a path that began to neglect these foundational truths and realities that Jesus spent His entire ministry teaching, and through this thread the Holy Spirit brought me to repentance again and refocused me on what actually matters, Jesus.

Intellect and pride will reject the words of Christ, and the life He lived (or better said, the life of the Father manifested through Him), but I stand with Jesus Christ and His words.

I give a hearty amen to your posts, thank you dear brother.

This thread was very timely.

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Travis

Vern wrote “Jesus Christ was totally dependent on His Father and overcame all temptation just by simply resting. (((((He was never concerned about obedience or disobedience.))))He put forth no effort to obey the law at all. The Live and divine nature of His Father accomplished all that within Christ. He had no sufficiency in Himself nor could He.”


8 Though he were a Son, ((((yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;))))
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that ((((obey him;))))

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep ((((obey))) his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth (((((obey)))) not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and (((became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross))))

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

8 in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on ((((those who do not obey)))) the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
6 (((For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:))))


Obviously there are many more scriptures like this from beginning to end of the Bible 🤷🏽‍♂️

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Fletcher

It's strange that people will even try and correct and reinterpret the clear words of Jesus Himself. He spoke plainly, yet men still juggle His words.

Vern,
Stand strong in the faith dear brother. Grubb was instrumental in my sanctification, and the Holy Spirit witnesses to the truths of union as taught by Jesus more strongly than any other truth. Jesus entire life was for us, for our redemption and total salvation; but men cling to the historical event of the cross and forget His life, and His resurrection. A historical Jesus is that and that only, a historical Jesus. I thank God he lives within His people, and I thank God He taught that indwelling through His life as a fully human, pattern man.