Perhaps we can sometimes underestimate our enemy based on our past victories and the testimonies that come from them magnifying Christ.
Is it possible that we while being distracted by the physical, losing focus on the spiritual (where we enjoy victory), as such we tend to take sides in physical conflicts yet to the neglect of the spiritual (salvific) conflict.
This is not an issue of whose right and whose wrong, it’s a matter of life and death, spiritually, eternally…..
To this possibility, the writer writes “how shall we escape, if we neglect so great a salvation”
The NT is peppered with numerous similar warnings coming in every way.
Is it possible that we undervalued the depth of satans desire to deceive… his desire to distract, divide, draw away the disciples of Christ…
Israel’s enemy is not Palestine nor is Palestines enemy Israel, we have but one enemy who seeks to divide the children (tribes) of God, the Body of Christ and to keep as many eyes veiled from the truth as possible. As such, we have a responsibility to make war against any knowledge or pretense that exalts itself above the knowledge of Lord Jesus. Consider Paul’s farewell (warning) in Acts 20:
19 Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:
20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,
21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ

25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
28 ((((Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.))))
29 (((((For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.))))
31 ((((Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.)))
32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, ((((and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.)))

Clearly this is heavy on his heart as he exhorts them in sincere admonitions, to not lose focus on the fundamentals, being distracted and neglectful….

Our enemy is that old serpent, the same one that tempted Eve in the garden and Jesus in the wilderness. The same one who was defeated by the Lamb of God, His blood being sufficient in itself to make the offering.

We are called to serve Him in spirit and in truth through our worship, we overcome by the blood and the word but we worship our way out 🙏🏻

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Fletcher

Thanks Fletcher for your posts and humble spirit. I especially appreciate your post about your Jewish friends and your heart for the Jewish people.


I have a simple admonition to myself and all on the forum that we adopt the humility of Paul in these matters. Despite his calling, gifting and instruction from the Lord, he came to the church in Corinth in fear and trembling and much weakness as he spoke for God to His children about the subject of His Son, the cross and His suffering and about the spiritual condition of His children. Paul was speaking in fear and trembling because of the subject matter, the preciousness of his listeners and the consequences to them if they did not abide in God's warnings and instructions.

I find that it is easy for me to slip into an academic detached mode of debate on matters that I and no one else is sufficient to speak to as we stand before God when we do. This is particularly relevant when dealing with end times as the Lord said adding to or taking from the Word on such matters is disastrous for the soul which is definitely not a hyperbolic warning. The one to whom He looks has a humble, contrite and trembling frame of soul, mind and heart when it comes to His Word and especially as it concerns His Son and His brothers and sisters.

I've seen a lot of "opinions" and probably given some in a lot of threads and speculation and opinions are frankly not going to instruct anyone or help anyone grow. I've also seen and issued a lot of combative language that can morph into personal ad hominem name calling in Biblical areas of truth, areas that are certainly debatable and often unresolvable. Labels of unclean spirits, monster theology, antisemitism and onward, are entirely unnecessary and usually are a resorting to baser instincts. False prophet, false apostle, false teacher, wolves, and those who cause divisions are the categories that Scripture reserves for those who have an agenda that turn them into enemies of the cross. Perhaps we should stick to those titles and those very limited instances and leave the rest of the accusations with the rest of the world.

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Robert

/What I find trouble with, is applying the spiritual heritage to the secular state,… (for me) the two presently seem to have a gulf between them-/

Absolutely. You are correct on this. And this is accompanied by the fact that Israel is said to be inviolable and incapable of being defeated even while they remain outside of the new covenant. Stating this can get one kicked out of many meeting houses in the present-day church.

The transformation of the secular state into a spiritual one (in Christ) is what much end-time prophecy is about.The details are there, yet looking into it and forming views is, in many quarters, frowned on as a useless endeavor that takes one focus away from Christ. Go figure. One thing is abundantly clear. A Jewish presence in the land is a necessity for end-time events to occur. That fact cannot be gotten around or circumnavigated.

/And at the end of the day, the cross of Christ is the only means by which God has made a way to come into covenant fellowship, communion with Himself.
In my mind, there isn’t a scriptural reference to the Lord making any other provision for Jewish persons to be saved other than Jesus of Nazareth, who at present (and traditionally) squarely reject Him as messiah./

Again, statements like this baffle me. Even those who place too much emphasis on the modern state being the fulfillment of prophecy have never taught that the secular state and its citizens is going to be restored outside of Christ and the cross. Where or who stated it? Does believing in the future of Israel as a nation under God somehow imply one is saying it will be done outside of an acknowledgement of the cross? I don't understand where this comes from since no one has or is advocating it. The son of the bond woman will not be heirs with the free woman. That's hardly news. Why bring it up if no one has advocated it? Israel Being brought back into the bonds of the covenant will be through the cross ONLY. It's too bad you can tell someone this but, since you beleive in a godly future for Israel after the nation's spiritual birth, many times it goes in one of their ears and out the other. It's an unfounded, baseless caricature. Salvation for Jews and the nation will come by and through the cross ONLY. They will be required to come to the table by FAITH ALONE just like every one else.

/Having said this, not only do I not harbor any ill will towards Jewish people or Israel as a state nor do I find any common ground with Hamas or any other Islamic group or persons. While this is true, I simply cannot ignore the fact that though they (Jewish persons) are a small percentage of the population (2.8%) here, they enjoy a grossly disproportionate share of control over the levers of power. These persons in no way demonstrate devotion to Christ, rather they seem to demonstrate a tendency towards communism which is itself antithetical to our faith and as such, I cannot appropriate the historical favor God has shown the Jewish community while they are clearly denying His messiah and acting (as a group) to supplant Christs kingdom with one built by their own hands./

Look a little further good bro. Is this evil you portray the end of the matter? If certain Jews begin to act better, will God be more inclined to deal with them? That then would be WORKS on their part making them acceptable to God. We know man is not saved by acting better but by the sovereign grace of God. It is a test and sifting of how we see our own coming to faith. Did we act better to get God to be on our side or was the whole salvation experience of Him? Same with these Jews. Scripture says God has concluded all under sin so that He might show mercy to all. If we are waiting for unbelieving Jewry or the secular nation Israel to begin to act better, we will be waiting a long while. God's intervening, undeserved grace coming to them is another thing.

Thank you for your comments. Thanks for what you said about raising your kids for Christ.

I've been to Dothan more than once when I lived in Fla. Did you ever hear of or know a preacher in Dothan named John D?

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David Winter

Couldn’t agree more,… it’s with a humble spirit that we position ourselves to receive grace and yet it is a bold one wherewith we approach and obtain mercy (for others) 🙏🏻
Likewise your admonition is well received, especially in our preferred nomenclature regarding those whom are as the scriptures say, enemies of the cross.

In all honesty, I’ve found myself in tears many mornings over the past few weeks,… knowing what’s coming and for many has already come 😔
Can’t help but feel like we (the church) have failed the grace of God in many ways regarding Israel and while I could be wrong in my understanding, nonetheless my heart is grieved and it’d be dishonest to say otherwise-

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Fletcher

The archaeologialy in Israel shows that Israel has been there for centuries
Hamas who is part of the Muslim brotherhood
When they say from the river to the sea they want the destruction of Israel and Israel to not exist

In Egypt the Muslim brotherhood was a small party took over Egypt and started persecuting Christians by writing n on there doors and burning churches

In Syria which held the most Christians in the middle east
They started attacking Christians in that country

They have used mass protests to take down governments in other countries

People who have not read the Qur'an don't understand how they treat Christians according the way of the traveller we are giving a dhimmi status

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Dominic Shiells

Thank you again for your patience with me, especially regarding this thread as it is not my intention to be contrary for contrary’s sake. My hope is that the body can be united under the headship of Christ, not having an independence of thought that shorts Him regarding His claim over us🙏🏻

As far as I have read you (nor anyone else) has stated that there is another way other than the cross and the blood of Christ. That was not my purpose in stating the obvious,… rather it’s primarily due to the tendency that we (western church) seem to view Israel and Jewish persons through the lens of the biblical (historical) OT perspective and less through the lens of the NT. As I mentioned, churches where the cross was covered by a state flag as though this would somehow please the Lord. Reminds me of Hosea’s words “my people perish for a lack of knowledge”. It’s just sad and won’t serve to lead people to the cross but to the flag 🤷🏽‍♂️


“Look a little further good bro. Is this evil you portray the end of the matter?”
No sir, not at all but it is indeed the facts of the matter presently-

“If certain Jews begin to act better, will God be more inclined to deal with them”
No sir, nor did I suggest it would-

“That then would be WORKS on their part making them acceptable to God. We know man is not saved by acting better but by the sovereign grace of God.”
Yes, Amen 🙏🏻

“It is a test and sifting of how we see our own coming to faith. Did we act better to get God to be on our side or was the whole salvation experience of Him?”
Well, (for me) I didn’t get God on my side,… I got on His 😇
While salvation is free, it is conditional as is any/all covenants.

“ Same with these Jews. Scripture says God has concluded all under sin so that He might show mercy to all. If we are waiting for unbelieving Jewry or the secular nation Israel to begin to act better, we will be waiting a long while. God's intervening, undeserved grace coming to them is another thing.”
Now we agree wholeheartedly on this and in fact, they are waiting on us,… until the fullness of the gentiles (according to scripture) which as it seems could possibly be much longer than we’d like to imagine-


“Did you ever hear of or know a preacher in Dothan named John D?”
If it’s who I think you are naming, bigger guy (looks Hawaiian), then yes and he loves the Lord, has a big heart, a strong, mature faith and is very active outside the church seeking to disciple believers 🙏🏻 I love him very much but haven’t seen him in a while-
We used to see/talk with each other almost daily at a local breakfast spot before it closed due to loss of revenue during Covid -


my observation regarding communism, it’s a thing that I’m quite sensitive to and we have more than you’d imagine right here in Dothan, AL. both in our local government as well as in churches. This is not to say these people are beholden to the CCP, (they may be), rather it’s a readily observable ideological position. It operates much in the same way as secular humanism, employing many of the same mechanisms seeking to do “good” (in their own eyes) but ultimately producing seed after its own kind,… the scriptures, our Lord even, says we should be as wise as serpents yet as harmless as doves… we would do well to take these words to heart or the words of Paul could very well become our lot-

2Cor 11:
1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
((((3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.))))
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him

This situation with Israel/Palestine (in my mind) holds the potential to do just that…draw us away from the simplicity in Christ. The spirit that is currently operating is (again in my mind) more earthly, nationalistic rather than that which comes from above,… as such, we have a massive responsibility to maintain our own relationship with God under the new covenant where Christ Jesus is the fulfillment of the old covenant, otherwise there is little to no chance that we will make anyone jealous, much less Israel.

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Fletcher

What is the.new covenant
What does the word Christ mean ? And where does that come from ?
As I started of that post

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Dominic Shiells

Not sure if you’re looking for an expanded version regarding the NC, but I’d say the shortest answer is Christ.
He is both the fulfillment of the Old Covenant and the Lamb of the New Covenant, the fulfillment of all the Old Covenant promises and the embodiment of all the provisions of the New Covenant
The risen King over all creation 🙏🏻



Christ (as you know) is from the Greek “Christos” meaning “anointed”
Which is indicative of the Hebrew term “Messiah” -

Jesus Christ
Yeshua Hamashiach

(Not sure if that’s what you’re asking)

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Fletcher

So where did the Messiah come from and where was he prophecied and which land and people Messiah is he

Who wrote the new testament and what nationality were they , how many were Jewish ?

Who was the new covenant made with and where is it prophecied in the old testament

What are the prophecies of the Messiah in the old testament?.

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Dominic Shiells

It would be easier if you would just ask or say plainly what you hope to bring out by pointing out Israel’s place or the Hebraic culture of our Jewish Messiah… ?

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Fletcher