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Joined: 2004/2/11
Posts: 60

 Revelation and the WWW

During some family philosophical and theological musings one evening, my stepfather mentioned a theory he recently formulated about Revelation. He said that he thought that maybe these verses could be referring to the world wide web:


Rev. 17
And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication...


Rev. 18:9-14
And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men. And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.


Rev. 19
And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. 3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. 4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia...

Interesting when you consider that so many clergy become ensnared by pornography thanks to the internet, and the fact that the overwhelming majority of the www is made up of it.

I said that I thought it was thought provoking, but in the end, I had to find it unlikely because it seems that the filthy state of the world wide web is just a reflection of the corrupt society that built it, and not the society itself (although the more it grows the more it seems that way). Anyway, I found it interesting enough to desire the thoughts of other theologians and armchair philosophers. What do you all think?

 2005/8/1 1:49Profile

 Re: Revelation and the WWW

Shazbot, First, please excuse me if I go off your topic a minute, but ... I just love your Forum Icon. Did you get it from the collection here ? I know I would have chose it, had I seen it.

Anyways, Those verses regard Babylon... a system, a city,a religious system and a place.

But your stepfather is not too far from something.

Babylon, represents and replicates almost to a tee, ancient Babel.

Of Babel, God said, "and nothing shall be impossible for them" (like our technology, etc.) and that "they all spoke one language" (when the world's computers were made "compliant" prior to Y2K, what really happened was that they were made "compliant" to each other, globally - One computer language, so the Internet could be used as "the voice" and the tracking system, etc. for further technology coming soon enough).

And yes, it is being used to seduce the saints, "he shall wear out the saints", that's satan's desire, whether through sin or phony preacher's or political untruths, Whatever. We're "not ignorant of his devices".

Also, to usher in world unity.

Not too many years ago, all nations had different ways of dressing and their music was different,News sources, etc. etc.. Even the north and south of America dressed differently ... now everyone dresses basically the same, just for one simple/very small unifying factor.
In November of this year, there will be a big summit on the UN taking over the Internet.

It is definitely the technology the beast will use, but in the mean time, Let's just [u]Glorify[/u] the Lord on it. :-)

Lord Bless you !

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 2005/8/1 3:27

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK


Of Babel, God said, "and nothing shall be impossible for them" (like our technology, etc.) and that "they all spoke one language" (when the world's computers were made "compliant" prior to Y2K, what really happened was that they were made "compliant" to each other, globally - One computer language, so the Internet could be used as "the voice" and the tracking system, etc. for further technology coming soon enough).

Hi GrannieAnnie
While I don't disagree with the technical unity Babel theme of your post, this piece is the reverse of what actually happened. I spent over 3 years working for an international bank on Y2K, managing their business communications across 60 countires. Y2K had nothing to do with standardising technology or computer programmes but rather ensuring that technology which already existed continued to work as expected. The internet was alive and well long before the hoohah about Y2K. It was not that 'compliance' created the internet but we could not have achieved 'compliance' without the internet.

Ron Bailey

 2005/8/1 4:38Profile

 Re:Just snippets

Hia Philologos, I guess I must not have worded what I meant clearly enough.

I'll post these few snippets (well, it looked like a 'few' to me :), to maybe - I hope, give a clearer picture of how I related all of this 'one language' stuff to Y2k, and the topic.

Thanks brother.

[b]Y2K- Worldwide Lesson in Cooperation[/b]

Koskinen of the U.S. pledged to keep the effort going through the United Nations saying, "we will make a great mistake if we don’t build on lessons learned."

I think that reaction reveals the lasting lesson of the Y2K issue as an unprecedented example of cooperation. The Y2K "bug" was many things – expensive, annoying, misunderstood and over-hyped – but it brought industries, governments and professions together in new ways and reminded all of us that we are well on the way to a globally wired future.

Cooperation also is made easier when people speak the same language.

From a technical standpoint, Y2K encouraged a more common language and common standards for technology. Some critics say it was the lack of standards in the programming field that caused the problem in the first place, or at least made it worse. Many of the repairs brought hardware and software into alignment with more standard programming. Going forward, with systems becoming more interdependent, there will be more compulsion for all information technology practitioners to work with common standards, no matter their country, industry or government. The Y2K experience is not the only factor compelling that cooperation, but it clearly jump-started the organizations and relationships that can guide the process.

I think Y2K was unique in the type and global scale of cooperation it inspired. More exciting is that the "bug" was not alone in creating this cooperation. It simply provided a dramatic reminder that we are bound together technologically and economically more than ever. Now reminded – and having learned from our Y2K experience – we are likely to continue a more cooperative pattern. In a technological age, traditional boundaries of nation, language, culture, practice and industry could be overmatched by the benefits of cooperation.

Peter J. Guffin is Co-Chair of the Governor’s Y2K Readiness Task Force and served as Y2K Project Executive for UNUMProvident Corporation.

[b]English: A Global Language?[/b] by Jeff Leiper '1998' Jeff Leiper is a reporter for Silicon Valley NORTH, an Ottawa-based trade paper that covers the information technology community.

The first computers were American; the Internet is a creation of the American military-industrial complex. The arrival of graphical user interfaces eliminates some of the language barriers to using computers, but consider the early days of personal computing. Applications were written in FORTRAN and COBOL, programming languages that used English words as base commands. Users of the first Apples, Commodores, and IBM personal computers were expected to type commands like RUN, PRINT, OPEN, LOAD, and the list goes on, to perform basic tasks. The language of computing remains English. Peralta points out that "French-speaking people have to make quite an effort to say logiciel instead of program." Professor Anthea Fraser Gupta of the school of English at the University of Leeds says that "speaking" on the Internet is difficult in languages other than English. "The norms of the Internet," she writes, "are established in ASCII texts, and even now texts transmitted unaltered from (for example) Francophone keyboards may produce garbage on English-favouring keyboards. ... Most documents in languages other than English, including those in countries where English is little used internally are mirrored by English translations (e.g., the pages of the French Ministry of Culture)."

The English nature of the Internet is apparent. The most basic presence to which most Netizens are entitled is the Web page. You can use expensive software to create an HTML document, but the basic tags still read . In a global economy that relies on the engine of computerized telecommunications to confer advantage, the edge held by English speakers is obvious.

A phenomenal 80% of the information stored electronically around the world is in English.

The second-largest export of the United States is cultural products. Hollywood consistently produces over 80% of the world's top-grossing films internationally.

Globalization, made possible by new forms of transport and information processing, may explain the need for a common tool for communications, but it doesn't explain why the tool is English. The answer may lie in the inherently English nature of the very tool that has created the new possibilities for planetary trade. "Technology," says Peralta matter-of-factly, "has been created in English."

Crystal's figures are from 1987, before the fall of the Wall, before the widespread advent of CNN, certainly well before academics and the military lost their grip on the network of nuclear-war-hardened computers that would become the Internet. Yet, over 80% of the world's digital traffic is still in English. The number of students learning English is as high as ever. The question is no longer "Is English the world language?" but more interestingly: "Why?" and "What does it mean?"

"English is like bread! You need it to get anywhere," he says emphatically, as though the value of the language is as obvious as the need for the pen I'm using to take notes. "English opens up doors," he adds. The majority of pupils in his institute are university students. They study English for the economic opportunities it provides. Many, he says, are young engineers who are unable to complete their courses without using textbooks that are written in English. Even after school, English is de rigeur in the global workplace.

[b]One Huge Computer '1998'[/b]

Indeed, to start building that one great computer, only a single essential ingredient is missing: an architecture, a universal language, a set of superprotocols, something - and very possibly today's lexicon can't name it - to hold it all together and let the magic work.

[b]English: from Global Language to Computer Tool?[/b]


[b]Language and Electronics: The Coming Global Tongue[/b]
The Economist, '1996'
Much of it will be between computers. Already 80% of the information stored in the world's computers is in English. On the Internet, English is dominant, although exactly how dominant is hard to quantify. Mr Crystal has tried searching for a variety of words for one thing--'orchestra', say--in different languages. The research suggests that, for scientific subjects, almost all material on the Internet is in English; in all, the proportion is around 70-80%. But, increasingly, people will have two languages: one for doing the shopping and talking to their friends, the other for communicating with the formal world. That language will be English. As Robert Frank and Philip Cook argue in 'The Winner-Take-All Society', published in 1995 by the Free Press, that will give the English-speaking countries an advantage in attracting and keeping the world's professionals.

 2005/8/1 11:12

Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK


Here's another slant on English and the WWW. From the disruption of the Roman empire and the loss of Latin as a lingua franca, nation states have become increasingly independent. This was quite a change to the world on the first Christians. They had a common world system, a common language and many other fascinating 'aids' to global evangelisation.

The roman world at the death of Trajan in AD 117 stretched from the shores of the Caspian Sea in the east to Spain's Atlantic coast in the west; from Britain in the north to Egypt in the south. In all Rome's 43 provinces occupied some 2m square miles. Some 50,000 miles of roads served to bind these scattered provinces to Rome. The Roman Peace had driven pirates from the Mediterranean and as no borders existed between Rome's conquered lands a traveller could travel most of the empire without frontiers and in relative safety.

The Greek language (and culture) had been adopted by the Romans and was a perfect lingua franca for the gospel.

Although there are ominous possiblities for a global language and the power of the www, it also presents us with the greatest opportunites for evangelism in 2000 years.

Ron Bailey

 2005/8/1 14:38Profile


So True Brother :-) .

Thanks for that post !!!

We just keep on, keeping on.


 2005/8/2 3:59

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