Have you ever had a conversation with a believer who used certain common religious clichés? These expressions are used by many christians from various denominations and fellowships. Over a long period of time, they become so commonly used that many believers forget that they are not actually Scriptural.

Take for instance, the concept of the "[i]altar call[/i]." I know believer's that have told me that they are certain [i]beyond all doubt[/i] that the phrase is found in the Bible. When I try to explain that the concept is quite modern (well, in the last 150 years or so), I have found myself in a difficult situation with other believers. The same is true with many modern Christian clichés and concepts.

I was speaking with a brother in Christ here at the University this week. He was explaining how the Holy Spirit is "moving like a river" at his Church. He invited me several times to become a part of his Church, so that I can "jump in the water" and "get deeper" in order that I can start to "flow." Every time that I ask him (or anyone from his church) how they are doing, the answer is nearly always, "Flowing, brother!"

As believers, these are clichés that we can all understand or interpret. However, my friend speaks this way with nearly everyone he comes into contact with. The response by most people is, "He seems to have been brainwashed by some cult!"

There are many other modern clichés that have become quite embedded in our "spiritual" culture. While I'm not saying that such clichés are wrong -- it is just frustrating to see how often we sometimes say them without realizing what it is that we are actually saying. Such use of clichés often comes across as being artificial and insincere.

And they are not just confined to our conversations. I have noticed that we often sing these clichés during worship and praise, we wear them on our t-shirts, we place them on our bumpers -- and ever so often, we even [i]pray[/i] using such expressions!

I have downloaded and listened to Keith Green's message, [i]What's Wrong with the Gospel[/i]? In it, I noticed that he also felt perplexed by the use of such language. Keith mentions the "Christians aren't perfect -- just forgiven" type of clichés, and describes how such expressions can be taken negatively by people who are not regular church attendees.

I am curious about the views of this forum on such clichés.

:-)

Keith Green - What's Wrong With the Gospel part I: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1011

Keith Green - What's Wrong With the Gospel part II: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1201

_________________
Christopher

ccchhhrrriiisss,

I am sensitive to this issue whenever I try to vividly convey the reality of Christ in me. By using original expressions, I am hoping that people will want to listen to an entire sentence before tuning me out...as opposed to only the first few words of a tired phrase before tuning me out mid-sentence. (It doesn't work but I still keep trying :-x .) I agree that we pick up phrases so quickly that you can almost tell what Christian book people just finished by the way they talk!

To be fair to people, I think most cliche's are not from insincerity. Human languge is learned through mimicry. As children we learn phonetics and words, but as adults we learn phrases and ideas. We simply recycle the best or most useful prhases to express our own minds and hearts. I think most cliche's are used with much sincerity and personal meaning.

Still, I wonder if too many Christian cliche's in pop culture are an indication that the culture has been Chistianized" The more we saturate our culture with Christian "stuff", the more it might become immunized against the real heart stopping message of the Gospel.

Well, as they often say...

Let go and let God. (oops, sorry! :lol: )

MC

_________________
Mike Compton

Not a bad topic to bring up.

Paul said something like, 'don't forget where you came from'

God saved me out of the 'Clubs'.
When I wasn't saved ... I sure wasn't saved, but God ...

Anyhowz, what I noticed, is that after I got saved and joined the Body and then went on from there, I began to speak a type of Christianese and more 'refined'. ha.

Then I realized, "Wait a minute, how can unchurched or whatever, understand WHAT ON EARTH I'M TALKING ABOUT ?"

And I wanted to work on the street, so I had to relearn street talk. (Kinda stuck huh ?) Ha !

Words are strange things. We can try to impress by being so grammatically correct and find the finest 12 lettered words to present an "image".

I guess, God looks at the heart and as long as we're being 'sincere' with our 'words', it doesn't matter how ya say it.

This is a very relevant subject and I am glad it is brought up.

Coming to the faith late in my life (47), I understand how grating it is to listen to expressions like -- Letting go and letting God...punching a hole in the darkness....and on and on. Its religious jargon. When I hear this said among Christians when there is no unbeliever in sight, its just irritating but not as offensive as if there is an unbeliever in the midst.

To understand any subject (that includes Christianity), there is a certain vocabulary to be learned. It is best I think to paraphrase some of that when witnessing. I dont mean diluting the word but restating it in a fresh way. I guess that is why some people suggest Eugene Peterson's translation of the Bible.

Sprouting Scripture verses to give quick answers to difficult questions in response to sceptic's queries can be tricky. Its like a Muslim telling you the "truth" by quoting the Koran. You dont take the Koran as the word of God in the first place.

God indeed sees the heart, but Man sees our actions. Sorry I digress.....

How about the concept of the Sunday night service. We visited a church recently on a Sunday when our house church wasnt meeting... and the pastor mentioned in his sermon how it was such a shame that even the more conservative of churches have stopped meeting on Sunday nights. It was spoken as if this was the 11th commandment. How many people realize that we have Thomas Edison, and not the Apostle Paul, to thank for the Sunday evening service? Back when the electric light bulb was invented it was not available to your average family... mainly because no one's houses were wired for electricity, and power poles were not erected yet to carry electric to everyone. So naturally the public buildings in town got electric light bulbs first. Many churches caught on to this, and decided that it would make a great evangelistic tool since many people would come out to church in the evening to see this great new invention... and voila... the evening service came into being. And now today, if your church does not have an evening service, or you do make it out for the evening service, you are sinning.

Isnt it funny how we add to the gospel?

Krispy

If we are not careful to live what we speak, what we speak is really rejected by others, no matter how true our words may be.

What others are looking for is how the Gospel affects our lives, and that our witness is not in what we say but in what we do. There and only there is the hope conveyed to others. Walk the walk, and let the walk speak for itself. Do the Word and others will hear. Speak it only, and your words will be seed sewn upon the rocks.

quietly and softly walking,

Lahry

How about, [i][b]"God hates sin, but loves the sinner"[/b][/i] most people think this is Scripture and use it to quiet rebuke of sin. Gods anger, wrath and fury are upon the sinner. The sinner needs to flee the storm of Gods wrath that's coming. The Ray Comforts and Jesse Morrels of the world here this one a lot.

[i][b]"God loves you just the way you are"[/b][/i] It is true that God is love and that Jesus loved "The Rich Young Ruler" just the way he was, but "The Rich Young Rule" because he refused to give up all to follow Christ will spend eternity in the horrors of hell.

[i][b]"God will judge my heart"[/b][/i] here is another one. There is not one single Scripture in the KJV, NKJV, NTL, NIV or NLV versions that contain both the words "judge" and "heart" - although there are numerous Scriptures that contain the words "judge" and "works" or "deeds"

You can take a look for yourself. When the Book Of Life is opened, God is not going to judge your heart. That's not where he's looking. "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"

_________________
Patrick Ersig

Hi Krispy...!

That is quite interesting. I have long questioned why the modern church holds on to some modern traditions (like the evening service). Its not that I disagree with evening services. In fact, I attend evening services as often as possible. But often, work and school prohibit some from attending regularly. I have noticed believers (including pastors and leaders) judge the congregation by their [i]attendance[/i] to the evening services.

A friend of mine at school attends a large church in his hometown, where the pastor places less emphasis on attendance and more emphasis on the fact that the body of believers [u]is[/u] the church. While the body is encouraged to meet together as often as possible (there are services available nearly everyday), the pastor is emphatic that such attendance does not "earn points" with the church or with God. According to my friend, the pastor of his home church often cancels some evening services, encouraging the congregation to spend time at home with their family (especially with a family Bible study or prayer meeting). The families or groups are sometimes encouraged to find another family (or single members of the congregation) and invite them to fellowship with them at home. People are available to conduct Bible studies or prayer meetings at the church facilities during such times, but the pastor's goal is that families spend time together in worship, study or prayer. This is quite a contrast with believers who feel that your spiritual walk can be judged by how many times a week you attend services. It is also quite a contrast with churches that emphasize the attendance as indicative of the spiritual condition of the congregation.

Ever-so-often, I call into question the "procedure" of modern church services. It seems like nearly every evangelical, pentecostal, charismatic, or fundamentalist church holds a very similar format in service procedures.

Services usually procede as follows:

1. [b]Opening prayer[/b] - usually by a pastor, elder, worship leader, etc...
2. [b]Opening songs[/b] - praise, worship, song service, etc...
3. [b]Offering[/b] - often followed by, or during, another song -- and preceded or followed by prayer
4. [b]Greet one another time[/b] - a handshake with your brother
5. [b]Special ministry[/b] - Time of testimony, Scripture sharing, etc... allowing the congregation to use their "talents" or experiences for the Lord
6. [b]Message[/b] - Preaching and teaching
7. [b]Music redux[/b] - musicians asked to come up at the end of the sermon (often playing during the closing moments of the service, and during the "altar call")
8. "[b]Altar Call[/b]" - call for salvation, repentence, or prayer needs
9. [b]Closing[/b] - prayer (and sometimes used to make announcements)

While the format of many services tends to vary from church to church, the overall procedure is usually quite similar. I understand that such formulas are a modern concept. But there are believers that feel that if the service strays from this formula, then "the Lord is prohibited from moving" or "having his way." I know pastors who refuse to preach until the congregation has spent time in worship (because the "annointing breaks the yoke").

Some churches tend to differ from step-to-step. The nearest Calvary Chapel (about 65 miles away) does not take up an offering during the service. The local Assembly of God often does not include preaching/teaching because "God moves during the service" and the singing continues for the duration of the meeting. A local holiness church has an altar call where those needing prayer (or repentance) are removed to another room or building to "pray through."

Does anyone know the history of (or have any thoughts about) the modern church service format?

:-)

_________________
Christopher

ccchhhrrriiisss,

You need to get your hands on a book called "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola (not the baseball player) which is all about where our modern traditions come from. Surprisinly many of them are far from scriptural in their roots.

As for church attendance... ever notice preachers love to preach about the day of rest (which they should!), yet they fill up Sundays with services, etc. Ever notice how frustrating it can be to get your family out the door on time... get to Sunday school by 10... get home around 1pm... have lunch... and then about 2 1/2 hours after lunch is over you have to get the family out the door in time for evening service? WHERE IS THE RESTING TIME?? Sunday can be the busiest day of the week! You get home from the evening service... and drop.

I view family time with the kids to be as important (if not more important) than church attendance.

It seems many times church is working AGAINST us!

Krispy

Just finished reading a short bio on George Fox. The Quakers do church totally different than most churches. The discernable presence of God is more easily felt and if nothing at all happens, that's ok.

Lahry