I am struggling at the moment as some people I know have turned Calvinist
I have studied tulip and I don't understand why you even need the gospel if you are part of the elect

I know I am a sinner a wretched one and the thing is if you believe in predestination you have to believe that God predetermined all my sins and predetermined everything in life including every small detail

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

In the basic passage that everyone knows jesus says whosoever that believes in him shall have everlasting life not the limited elect. If we have to believe in him we are using are free will to believe in him

I cannot on judgement day say all my sins are god's fault

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Dominic Shiells

Pay no attention to Calvinism. Monstrous doctrine taken to its final inevitable conclusion. Your gut (Holy Spirit) is leading you right.

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Todd

I’ve heard a lot of counsel in the body over the years and in many continents. That is very definitely the first time I’ve heard a Godly mature man counsel someone to trust his gut and declare that to be the HS. God of course gave each of us a gut but mine is apparently not as sanctified.

He who is willing to do the will of the Lord will know whether any particular teaching is of God or is of man. Give the Lord your whole life as a sacrifice and instrument in His hands and you will know the perfect will of God. No matter the issue.

Don’t check your gut brother.

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Robert

It’s just an expression. Don’t get overexcited. Oswald Chambers calls it a “check in your spirit” or “witness of the Spirit.” When this happens, you feel it. And you best listen.

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Todd

I'm surprised the forum here allows anybody to say they disagree with calvinism!

I've been to several Christian forums and speaking against John Calvin is forbidden and they end up banning some over this.

I am sharing this video not to start a fight but to have a discussion on the strong and weak points of Calvinism. Many devoted Christian leaders are on both sides of this doctrine.


https://youtu.be/CwTUwNUB9_M

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Mike

Thanks for the video Mike. I don’t hold anything against the person on the video or his attempt to articulate the reformed basis for God’s sovereignty in salvation, but it isn’t a reasonable explanation. As for it being a starting point for discussion of strengths and weaknesses, I’ve been down this path before having been on both sides in my journey. It may start well but it usually ends poorly with someone accusing the reformed believer and/or his God of being a monster which may be an accurate description of me but not of my God.

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Robert

While the video was presented in an earnest and forthright manner. I tend to agree with Robert in that this topic does often devolve into a fleshly affair.
(For me) the question is why does that happen,… why can’t brothers and sisters in Christ sit and reason together on this issue?
What I found was that each side is advocating and neither side is actually coming to the table hoping to learn that their spiritual ideology is hogwash 🤷🏽‍♂️
Which is to say, rarely if ever, does one “convert” in the midst of these discussions, rather what I’ve observed is the tendency to defend to the death the respective cause, regardless of the facts presented. So it’s more of a contest than anything resembling ministry. I’m not judging that as right or wrong so much as pointing it out as fact-

The question remains,… why?
from where my research has led me, it’s a fundamental question of the sovereignty of God. Wether He has sovereign authority only or wether He has sovereign control in addition to sovereign authority-

A person whose base conception of “God” who only holds one of these tenants to be true will categorically differ from a person whose base concept requires both tenants to be true. Which is to say the starting points are different, inevitably each will relate scripture to their base model and therefore come to entirely different conclusions as they each attempt to relate or fit it all together in their respective contexts. So it’s kinda like the difference between a Microsoft and Apple operating system. How they uptake, allocate, store data is different to the point of being incompatible directly from terminal to terminal.

So perhaps a more profitable discussion could be the nature and limits (if any) to Gods “sovereignty”.

Having said this, like the video points out- this all became formalized in the time of Augustine and was “institutionalized” by the mid 400’s ad.

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Fletcher

Rom. 16:17,18

From such turn away...

https://theapostasyfiles.com/heretic-landing-page/vlad-savchuk/?amp=1

But even a discussion just of God’s sovereignty will devolve to certain uncommon denominators. Some folks are comfortable taking certain positions to their logical conclusions regardless of how it makes God look. Others are less comfortable.

It seems the only way our minds can conceptualize it is to hold two contradictory tenets (e.g. God does and God doesn’t) as simultaneously true- like Schrödinger’s cat.

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Todd