| Snake Handeling and Poison|
14 Later, He appeared to the Eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table. And He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who saw Him after He had been resurrected. 15 Then He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; 18 they will pick up snakes; if they should drink anything deadly, it will never harm them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will get well."
Does this mean Christians can handle snakes and drink posion without fear of being bitten or dying from the posion? This passage confuses me.
| 2005/7/30 17:03||Profile|
| Re: Snake Handeling and Poison|
Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and [u]preach the gospel to every creature[/u].
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall [u]they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.[/u]
Would you believe that there's folks out there, that have taken verse 15 to mean that we should preach to our pets and they have to get saved ?
The T.V. guy that said this, said his pets "are saved". From what - I wonder ?
Pets don't go to hell. :-(
Well, I thought that was funny anyways.
I pray for my pets for protection, and for my home,,, just that the Lord will protect and keep it Holy unto Him. I just know by trust, that The Lord will protect my animals from 'spirits', so to speak ... but how could I get them to make a commitment of faith ? ha.
Anyhow, there's a bunch of folks that have taken ALL of those verses to the extremes. (What else is new ?)
Churches that bring in poisonous snakes and dance around holding them, and drinking poison junk and all :-? .
The Apostle Paul in the book of Acts was bit by a snake and didn't die ... because God still needed him for his commission to preach, etc..
A lot of Missionaries die of one thing or another in foreign lands.
We can't paint these verses with a broad brush.
Not everyone has healed the sick, or cast out a demon, so it can only be applied that, these things are "possible" for those who believe ... and "in My Name", means in my "authority" ... if He's not "in" the situation, then we haven't His "authority".
Otherwise, we could put the Hospitals out of business and the Sanitariums too probably.
If while in HIS service, and acting with and in His authority,(His O.K., or a direct word from His Spirit), then these things will & can happen with believers.
Missionaries have more of these type experiences because of the territory they are in, and "signs & wonders" are to propagate the Gospel, not for Side-Shows.
But God knows 'when' and how we are to come Home to him, and if it's time to go Home, then it's time to go.
It can go either way, with the poison deal or the snake in your garden or even cancer or whatever ... but you can ask the Lord if any happens, "Lord, I believe Your Word and Mark 16:18,ETC. I would like to live, if it would be Your will, to bring Glory to You, so I pray for Your Glory foremost, that THY will be done." And I'm sure, others would be praying for you also.
The snake handler groups are "tempting God" by His Word ... not good.
Don't know if this helped.
| 2005/7/31 2:23|
Preaching to their pets? That is very funny -- and yet so sad! Its quite strange how some people take things to extremes.
When I was in high school, I worked at a restaurant in the town near our home. An older man who had recently begun working there overheard me talking about the Lord with some co-workers. This man explained that he too was a believer. After a couple of weeks, I asked him what type of church he attended. He simply told me that he was a "holy roller."
I have heard that term many times in the past, but usually applied to pentecostal, charismatic or highly vocal believers. So I told him that I was also a very committed believer.
After a few months transpired, this man asked if he could accompany me to church. He attended the following Sunday morning. After the service was over, my parents invited him to eat. In the car, I asked him how he liked the morning service. He told me, "Well, it was okay. Its just that your pastor kept speaking about death."
That morning, the pastor had mentioned the importance of being ready to meet the Lord at any time. I told my friend that I also believe we should be ready, because we never know when we will die. We should live each moment as if it were our last -- and we were ready to depart at all times. My friend said, "Well, this is where you and I disagree."
My friend explained, "I don't worry about death, because I will never die!"
I told him, "Oh...you mean that you believe the Lord is coming soon?"
My friend replied, "No. I will never die, because the Bible states that we shall overcome death. So that is what I intend to do!"
I asked him what he meant. My friend explained that if he wanted to, he could step in front of a train, and it would not kill him. He told me that he could jump off of a building, and the angels would lift him up. And he told me that he could never drown, burn, suffocate, etc... because "by the blood of Jesus, I have overcome death!" He went on to tell me that his entire church held the same belief.
At first, I thought that he was joking. But as he continued, I could tell that he was really serious! I asked him, "Well, has anyone in your church ever died?"
His reply: "Only the backsliders -- and those who didn't have enough faith!"
My friend went on to explain that his church is truly filled with "holy rollers." That is, they actually [i]roll[/i] down the aisles during the service. They stand in line, and while the preacher is speaking, they take turns rolling. He explained several other quite peculiar doctrines that the church held. He was very apprehensive about discussing (or ever questioning) some of the doctrinal beliefs of his church.
One day, he came to work early, and sat at a table with the husband of one of the wait staff. When I walked over to greet them, the husband of the waitress explained that he was finalizing a sale of life insurance for my friend. My friend sheepishly looked up and said, "It's for my mom -- in case I ever backslide."
| 2005/7/31 3:04||Profile|
rotflmho ... Chris, you must have read my earlier post where I said I "had to laugh".
Though very sad, I can't help it, but your telling of this story and how you told it, has me in tears laughing. (Sorry, Lord :)
I KNOW God also has a sense of humor. He created the Monkey, etc..
And here I was afraid that you all, on this forum, had read some Puritan book against "the spirit of levity" or something. Ha !
That was a perfect analogy and post for this thread alrighty.
And I thought I'd heard everything. OH MY !
You sure can write a good story. Sad in so many ways, but I could feel your sympathy for this man, through your words.
But at the same time, I sure needed this laugh and I'm sure JaySaved will appreciate it too..
Thanks a lot for sharing that.
Laughter is medicinal ya know ? :-D
God sure Bless ya Chris.
| 2005/7/31 3:41|
| Re: Snake Handeling and Poison|
I have wondered about this myself, especially when going swimming in ponds with snakes this summer. I truly believe this can happen physically when needbe- like the Apostle Paul's snakebite, but also is to be applied spiritually. The snake and poison being evil things, and we don't have to be afraid of evil things, with God's power and being submitted to Him. In the end, those with Christ will win, even if they may be murdered by evil in this generation as so many martyrs have been, that is not the end of the story for Christians.
Be wise as serpents, innocent as doves, and don't test God foolishly. Be wise.
| 2005/7/31 12:51||Profile|
Orange Park, FL
i JUST read about this subject in john macarthur's book "charismatic chaos". (oh, by the way, i'm a pentecostal reading macarthur.....ironic ,huh?). macarthur points out that the scripture says :"believers WILL drive out demons, they WILL speak with new tongues, they WILL pick up snakes and drink poison and not be hurt, they WILL lay their hands on the sick and the sick WILL be healed." notice that the scriptures doesn't say IF but WILL, and not POSSIBLY but WILL. Macarthur goes on to say : "it quickly becomes apparent that these promises have not been fulfilled in the life of every Christian for all time." he goes on to say that these promises WERE true for the apostolic community only (...during the apostles era.). he says it is incorrect to assert that these signs should be the norm for all believers today (2 Cor 12:12 and Heb 2:2-4). lastly , he says that either all these signs are valid for all believers today or none are valid because they were given as a single unit (for the apostles to confirm the gospel message).
now, i want to let you know that i don't agree with everything macarthur always says although this is a logical explanation, right?
| 2005/7/31 16:07||Profile|
| Re: Snake Handeling and Poison|
God's Word tells us in Mark 16:15-18:
"Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; 18 they will pick up snakes; if they should drink anything deadly, it will never harm them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will get well."
"Does this mean Christians can handle snakes and drink posion without fear of being bitten or dying from the posion? This passage confuses me."
All of our days are numbered and God knows exactly when that day will come. If we are about Christ's business, as it indicates above, then his "hedge of protection" will protect us just as it did Paul. Paul was not tempting God when he reached down to pick up the firewood, he was only trying to add wood to the fire. Today, in China and Africa many miracles are taking place- the actual resurrection of the dead, the blind are prayed for and can see, the deaf are healed and can now hear.
One thing that believers in China and Africa have going for them (that most of us in the western world don't) is that they are new believers and have not been contaminated by textural critics and Bible scholars. They are filled with the Holy Spirit and believe God. Many of the missionaries in China and Africa are not from the Western World. When they pray, their faith is nothing more than that of a grain of mustard seed, but THEY BELIEVE GOD AND IN HIS POWER TO DO ANYTHING.
| 2005/7/31 16:28|
I think all the answers in all the posts to Jaysaved above, say the same thing, and they're good.
Some may disagree though.
When anyone says, "that was just for the Apostles", that's called "Cesstationist" (or 'ism').
Full-Gospel or Pentecostal folks are not Cesstationists.
The only thing that we can't do, that the Apostles did is, write New Revelations, like adding to the Scriptures, Write more to the Bible, come up with a New Revelation that contradicts the Bible, (All basically the same thing/junk. :)
But I pray this won't turn into a dispute over all'a this :-o .
But, anyhowz ~ just giving our opinions here, again, I think every post on here is saying the same thing and hit it on the head.
Have a Fun Sunday.
The 'JOY' of The Lord is our Strength.
| 2005/7/31 16:44|
Orange Park, FL
please disregard my previous posting on this subject.
i see the foolishness of my post. i cannot be a cessationist and a pentecostal at the same time as both contradict one another. nor can i be a "partial" cessationist and "partial" pentecostal at the same time either. i DO believe the gifts are still here today! :-D
you are "educating" me! thanks-
| 2005/7/31 17:05||Profile|
"i JUST read about this subject in john macarthur's book "charismatic chaos". (oh, by the way, i'm a pentecostal reading macarthur.....ironic ,huh?). macarthur points out that the scripture says :"
"now, i want to let you know that i don't agree with everything macarthur always says although this is a logical explanation, right?"
You must realize that John MacArthur is not spirit filled and has no first hand knowledge of the "Promise of the Father" where the Holy Spirit comes upon the believer and EMPOWERS HIM/HER. MacArthur does not have the spiritual gifts of one who has received this promise- the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, faith, the gifts of healing, the working of miracles, the gift of prophecy, the gift of a discerning spirt, the gift of tongues, the gift of the interpretation of tongues [1 Cor 12:7-11]
"7. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9. To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10. To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11. But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.the gifts of prophecy, the gift of the word of knowledge, or the gift on tongues."
When MacArthur reads acts 2:17 he assumes that that it already happened, and that it does not happen today. When McArthur reads Mark 16, since he has no personal experience with what is being written, he assumes that this only happened to the original apostles as well.
The problem is, these same signs are taking place now in the world. What is his answer? what is his response? Nothing but scepticism and unbelief!
Granted, the charismatic movement in America is very close to a sideshow, with members following the signs and wonders. God's Word is true and stands on it's own. It is not a good idea to throw the baby out with the bath water. The signs and wonders should follow the Spirit Filled believer. The beliver should never follow the signs and wonders. That is the problem with the charismatic body in America today in most Charisamtic Churches.
WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID, IS JOHN MACARTHUR SAVED? YOU BET HE IS, AND I WILL SEE HIM IN HEAVEN.
| 2005/7/31 17:16|