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Discussion Forum : General Topics : God did not create us to live by instructions.

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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2167


That's a good way to put it Vern, when man fell from Grace God pronounced the curse of corruption over mankind, and the very existence of the carnal nature and the natural man became so connected with the original lie that you can't really tell where one begins in the other ends. They are all one and the same.The very fallen nature of man without the gracious influence of God express nothing but the lie and the evil that goes with that lie.

That's why Paul said in me that is in my flesh nothing good dwells, and this fallen nature is so connected to the body that he even goes on to say flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom, he goes on to say, well Jesus said the sons of the resurrection would be like angels there has to be a complete redemption and transformation of the body and the nature which obviously leads to a full redemption of creation we hear it grown and see it grown with birth pains until the revealing of the sons of God. And it's not Gnosticism to suggest this, it's clearly taught by the apostle Paul and even Jesus.
So the life of Adam is to be completely rejected and not seen as pleasing towards God, without faith it is impossible to please God and this Faith has been measured to each one of the believers through the power of the holy spirit and the beginning of the new creation. The heavenly man is our
Lineage, and the coming Glory of Christ and our new bodies which are heavenly bodies far exceed as the heavens a higher than the Earth the fallen creation and even far exceed the creation of the original Adam who was only living Soul, rather than a life-giving spirit as our savior is, Everlasting father our Prince of peace, our wonderful counselor our mighty God.

 2023/1/15 23:06Profile

Joined: 2020/9/15
Posts: 93

 Light Transforms The Soul

We need to understand and experience the reality of the Light that displaces the Lie. However, if we begin by underestimating the power and effect of the Lie, then we will unknowingly seek to build truth upon it. Facts that are laid upon a false foundation are powerless. In this way, Christianity, regardless of how accurate our doctrines, can be a meaningless encounter with words, rather than an experience of the Spirit of Truth filling our souls with Himself. Truth is a Person - not words about a Person, and you come to know the Person of Truth only when He floods the darkness of your soul with His marvelous Light.

Have you ever needed to see and experience the power of the Truth? Have you ever been desperate to know something more real than your pain, your circumstances, even your very self? I have known some difficult times in my life where I wrestled with fear and confusion and significant inward torment. I remember in many of those times crying out to the Lord in the words of 43:3 Oh, send out Your light and Your truth! Let them lead me; Let them bring me to Your holy hill and to Your dwelling place.

I wish I would have known in those times, in all of my praying, fasting, and pleading, that before Truth could ever right my emotions and overcome my circumstances, it had to show me a lie that had saturated my soul. There was a lie that was even deeper than my pain. It had filled and formed my perception. It had named my world the wrong name, and it was too familiar to recognize. I could not see the forest for the trees.

Light Transforms The Soul

Jesus said, "You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free" (Joh 8:32). Much of my life was spent searching for something more than Truth to transform my soul and teach me freedom. It did not seem possible that Truth alone had the power to do this, but this was because I confused the mind's acknowledgment of facts with the soul's encounter with God's living Word. When the mind becomes aware of facts, it sorts them and seeks to make application. But when the soul discovers Christ by the revealing of the Spirit, it falls as one dead and realizes it can do nothing except by Him.

Facts learned by the mind, regardless of how accurate, cannot change you. They can convince, excite, motivate, and instruct, but they cannot transform the soul. Though we learn much in this way, the honest heart cannot help but realize that something more is needed. Something more must be available. In time, we become aware of our deficiency and set out to find more. But too often the hungry soul is ushered down one of many roads that lead to nowhere. We run after conferences, chase "anointed" leaders, and read every new "Christian-living" book that hits the shelf. We give ourselves to prayer, fasting, study, and self-discipline but often to no avail. These things done out from the wrong man and towards the wrong end turn out to be works of the flesh rather than experiences and expressions of the Spirit.

It is the power of Truth and how it makes us free. That Truth transforms the soul because it shows us a finished work. God's Light does not show you what should or could be. God's Light reveals what already is. And when you see in this way, you find that Truth makes its own application to your soul.

 2023/1/18 11:19Profile

Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 717

 Re: Light Transforms The Soul

The Holy Spirit in us is the basis, the beginning, and the power of our sanctification and glorification. How it is manifested, in the reality of our daily living, has been the recurrent point of discussions in this forum:

1. What is the role of a christian so that the new life or new heart will be visible in our lives, do we just passively expect or observed it.

2. What is the role of the scriptures in bringing this reality, for us and the world to see. Do we still need our bibles.

3. With the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, is this reality just limited for moral changes, does it include healing and other supernatural manifestations.

4. Why do we still sin and many christians still feel wretched, what do we have to do or advice other believers who are caught up with these.

5. What is the persisting role of grace, faith, forgiveness, and repentance in our sanctification until we are finally glorified.

6 How is sanctification different in the old covenant.

 2023/1/18 22:50Profile

Joined: 2020/9/15
Posts: 93

 Why Do We Act Like Adam?

All of this discussion of Adam and his judgment is that we might better understand the nature of the first man that lives by the Lie. That nature is indeed dead to God, judged of God, and alienated from God but nevertheless is active and thriving, even in the souls of the redeemed, to whatever measure it has not been destroyed by Light in the revealing of Christ.

If you are born again, you are no longer Adam by nature. "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new" (2Co 5:17). Regardless of how you may feel, what you have done, or what you have or have not comprehended by faith, you have unquestionably made the exodus out of the "first" and into the "second" through the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. God knows you and relates to you according to what He has done and what is real and true in Christ. In relation to you, He does not recognize what He has judged and put away from Himself. So "there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus" (Rom 8:1).

Nevertheless, what God has put away through the cross will continue to work in your soul and define your reality until Light shines and displaces the darkness. Though born of God's Spirit, you will walk in the Lie to the degree that the eyes of your heart have not seen God's finished work.

Believers often ask - "If Adam is dead and I am a new creation in Christ, why is it that I still act so much like Adam? Adam seems to be very much alive in me!" The problem is not that somehow Adam has escaped judgment. The problem is that we misunderstand Adam's death. We read the word "dead" and assume it implies an immediate cessation of activity. Make no mistake, Adam is entirely without Life and judged of God. Yet you and I who are born again begin our life in Christ with a spiritually blind and Lie-infested adamic mind. This is no different than how a human baby enters the world. A newborn baby comes from the womb fully alive. He or she is not in need of more life. That is not their problem. Their one all-consuming deficiency and weakness is that they have absolutely no comprehension of either the life that they have, or the realm into which they have been born. They have only a slight comprehension of womb-life that now is utterly unhelpful and altogether irrelevant to growing up and prospering in the earth.

This is exactly how we begin in Christ. If only we would approach our new birth with such an awareness of our complete ignorance and desperate need of Light. Though we are born of His Seed and a partaker of His nature, the adamic mind is utterly unhelpful and altogether irrelevant to growing up and prospering in Christ. Worse than that, "the carnal mind is enmity against God" (Rom 8:7) . And so until God's Light teaches us the Person and realm into which we have been born, will live by the Lie that we have known.

Very simply, you act like Adam because the Lie is still far more real to you than the Light. You act like Adam because, though you have been born of the Truth, the Lie is still the lens through which you know most things. Growing up in Christ is not a matter of getting more of something you do not have. You will never have more of Christ than you do the moment you are born again. Growing up in Christ is learning the Person and Place into which you have been born and abiding in Him. Spiritual maturity involves Light showing you what and where you are. Until it shines, we will continue to act like Adam because his Lie is all that we have known.

 2023/1/19 7:10Profile

Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 593

 Re: Why Do We Act Like Adam?

What does it mean when it speaks of being dead to something? Consider what happens at death. There is a spirit living in a body. At death, the spirit leaves the body so that it no longer has a relationship with it. In just the same way, since we are now dead to sin through the Cross of Christ, we no longer have a relationship (legal, moral or in any agreement with) sin.

One of the worst illustrations or analogies that I was given as a young Christian was the idea that since we are dead to sin it is exactly like how a dead body CANNOT respond in any way when jabbed with a needle. This sort of teaching was rampant among holiness groups in the early part of the 20th century. From this erroneous teaching I was under the impression that being dead to sin meant that I could not or would not be tempted to sin. And so I was trying and trying and trying to RECKON myself dead until temptation was no longer a thing.

Now when I reckon myself dead to sin I treat all temptations to sin with EXTREME INDIFFERENCE because that is just not something in my wheelhouse anymore. I found that if I thought it necessary to muster all kinds of brute strength to resist or overcome sinful desires, I would fail. And the reason that is so is because behind that kind of strategy is a subconscious belief that sin has power over the believer and must be resisted with much self effort.

Reckon is a word for a type of faith that means 'consider it so'. The Bible makes plain that faith and works are like oil and water. They don't mix and are inherently different. And if I reckon myself dead to sin, I consider it a fact and SIMPLY DISMISS sinful temptation as being foreign to my nature and having no value to me. No struggle is necessary.

But to successfully walk in this type of faith we have to align our heart, mind and will with the value system of the spirit as opposed to that of the flesh. If you secretly treasure the things of the flesh in your heart, you will fail and your sin will find you out. That is why Paul emphasizes the mind of the spirit and the mind of the flesh so much in Romans 8.

See yourself as in Christ having the same value system as Him. You will perform according to how you consistently see yourself as being. Let your self image be that as someone IN CHRIST.


 2023/1/19 10:37Profile

Joined: 2020/9/15
Posts: 93

 The truth shall make you free.

John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." That word "know" is used in this verse and that is extremely important. Knowing the Truth is not the acquisition of information, but it is participation with the Truth Himself. That inward participation with the Truth is the only thing that is capable of transforming the soul of the believer. I love the fact that he stresses the absolute inability for even one who has "tasted and seen," to ever impart that reality into someone else. That seems to be our concept. We seem to think that we can communicate the reality into the souls of people.

Many think that we can exhibit spiritual reality through what we do, by how much we love, or even the external activities in which we involve ourselves. That is not the case. If you are experiencing salvation, that experience is due to the work of the Spirit wherein Christ is revealed in your soul. In His revealed presence, you are experiencing Him, yet you cannot make that experience anyone else's. Each soul must know reality for itself and that necessitates that soul's submission in absolute dependence upon the Spirit of Truth, that He may make known in us the reality that only He knows. That is the direction that we must give to a heart that desires to know and experience the greatness of salvation.

Information becomes a detriment if it does not also give direction. In other words, speaking about and describing the aspects of a perfect salvation is of no effectual consequence if it is not coupled with directing the heart of the hearer to turn his heart so that the Spirit of God may make known the eternal and essential substance that the words could merely illustrate. The Christian world is overloaded with instruction and steps for spiritual achievement. However, most have never been directed to turn their hearts unto the Father that He may unveil their hearts to see and know the Great Salvation embodied in the indwelling Christ.

 2023/1/22 14:48Profile

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