Good point, twayneb.

The most important part of this is that we must be willing to surrender our lives (and our will/wants) for our Lord.

When I gave my life to Jesus, I did just that -- I gave my life to him. I poured out my heart to him (alone in a field) and told him that I would give up everything that I was and everything that I could ever be if I could only know him and be his friend. I arose from my knees dead to my old self and suddenly alive -- a new creation.

As Leonard Ravenhill often said, repentance isn't just feeling that you're sorry for your sins. It's not just saying a prayer asking for forgiveness. It's believing in Christ enough to give your entire life to him.

Once this happens, we feel that "freedom" in Christ where the law of God is written in our hearts. It's not freedom to sin but freedom to be alive to God in Christ Jesus (Romans 6:1-14).

In this current world, I sometimes wonder whether people misunderstand the "freedom" that comes through Christ. I've seen people who even make excuses for sin by invoking their "freedom" via the "grace of God." Some, I fear, are awfully close to insulting the spirit of grace (Hebrews 10:1-31).

In the Old Covenant Law, God knew that his chosen people would sin in this world. That was the purpose of sacrifices at the Tabernacle and Temple. Forgiveness of sin and atonement were obtained in that manner. However, we have been redeemed. Our bodies are now the Temple of the Holy Spirit. We live in such a way as to come to him daily. We live our lives for him daily. We live with a sense of wanting to please him and forsaking our own sinful desires. Sometimes, we fall short. Yet, we boldly approach his throne of grace.

Thanks for pointing this out. The tablets of God's law are still written on paper; but, their eternal basis and meaning is only realized by hearts given to him.

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Christopher

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:

"When I gave my life to Jesus, I did just that -- I gave my life to him. I poured out my heart to him (alone in a field) and told him that I would give up everything that I was and everything that I could ever be if I could only know him and be his friend. I arose from my knees dead to my old self and suddenly alive -- a new creation."

and

"Thanks for pointing this out. The tablets of God's law are still written on paper; but, their eternal basis and meaning is only realized by hearts given to him."

The key is the new birth/regeneration. Without the new birth the bible is a dead book. With the new birth it becomes a living book. One of the evidences one has been born again is the desire/hunger for the written word.

This thread is focused on justification by faith I believe. What about sanctification and what is the role of the written word in regards to sanctification?

[1Pe 2:2 KJV] [2] As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

[Jhn 17:17 KJV] [17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

twayneb wrote:

""Even those who have the Bible and study it are not governed by the Spirit of God if they are not walking in the Spirit. This is evidenced by the craziness that we see going on in the "church" world these days."

Does the craziness that we see happening in the church come from those who study the bible and know it? For example, LGBTQ (in the church) comes from people who reject the bible as being relevant for today. False gospels/cults come from people who twist the bible and then are believed by people who don't know their bibles to discern between the true and the false.

vern
At the beginning you wrote: "The purpose of everything is that God our Father might have what He wants. And what God wants above all is a Body, a visible form, through which He can be Himself inside of His creation..."
I can't find this in Scripture. "want" means "to be needy or destitute" . God doesn't need or lack anything.

You also wrote: "Jesus belongs to me..."
Paul wrote: "You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God with your body..." 1 Corinthians 6:19–20
In Romans 1:1 he wrote: "Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus..."
A servant (doulos) works for his Master.
Jesus will always be Supreme, King of Kings and Lord of Lords

You are mixing truth and error.
It is dangerous if you get your ideas just of some internet sites.

deogloria


I have not closely read all the posts in this thread so I am just responding strictly to this statement you made:

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Jade

Thanks Jade
It dependes which definitions we apply and how we interpret some verses
"Jesus belongs to me..."
belong to (someone) : to be the property of (someone) : to be owned by (someone) (source:Britannica )
Jesus is not my property

Ps. 73:25 –Whom have I in heaven but You?
Pulpit Commentary
Who is there in all the host of heaven on whom I can place any reliance, excepting thee?

"Of course, the Vine will forever be the Master and Lord of the branch. The branch will forever be the servant/slave of the Vine..."
That is a good and easy to understand summery.
We are the branch, we will not become as the vine
And yet, we should still become more and more like Jesus.
This process of becoming more Christ-like is “sanctification.” To be sanctified is to become more dedicated to God and separated from sin It’s to live out the deep principles of salvation. In sanctification, believers become more like their Savior.

Thank you all, blessings

Markus

Markus,

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Jade

I want you to see the Lord's Body come to know as we are known of God; to live in the realization of a salvation, which is far removed from our own faces and defined in the face of Christ. The unfortunate situation is that our concept of salvation is living for God by attempting to self evidence the spiritual aspects and attributes of which we read in the scriptures. However, salvation is the Life, source, and meaning of which all those things testify, living in us. It is this realization in which the Spirit of God desires we live.

Jesus did not come to earth 2000 years ago and drop off an instruction manual on how to "live for God". Jesus came to earth 2000 years ago, brought all of Adam into the grave, and then came forth in resurrection to live and reign forever in His body - "Which is the church, the fullness of Him who fills all in all". (Eph 1:22) We were never meant to receive His life and continue to live by ours.

And the reason we all live most of our lives in the hopeless frustration of Romans 7:14-24 (where Paul describes what living for God is like in the flesh-saying "the good I want to do, I simply can't do it!) is because we have too often only heard the gospel preached as a path to heaven with a self-improvement plan along the way.

And what Paul describes in Romans 7:14-24 is what living as a Christian is like when we still understand ourselves to be married to the Law: when we don't see our death; when we don't know what it means to live by the life of another. In other words, Paul is telling us what it is like to try it when the old "I," the old man, is still trying to live for God. That's why he starts out that passage of Scripture defining the "I" as that "which is flesh, sold into bondage to sin". And then uses the word "I" according to that definition 23 times in those 10 verses. He's making a point here. His experience, and EVERYONE'S experience, when living for God in the flesh is an exasperating "wretched man that I am, who will save me from this body of death?"

His point in this is NOT that you would identify with it and say "I guess that's just how Christianity works". NO! It's that you would see the futility of trying to walk in the flesh after you've been born of the Spirit. It's so that you would cry out "Who will set me free from this body of death?"...and turn to know the Lord as your very life.

And this is exactly what the next chapter of Romans deals with. "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!" Thanks be to God that the body of this death was dealt with by the cross. Thanks be to God that I no longer have to walk in the flesh.

Rom 8:2 "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did-so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit".

This is the glorious work of the cross. It brings us out of living in the flesh, into a participation in the life of Christ. It is not the imitation of Christ in the flesh; it is the impartation of Christ in the Spirit. The cross is the bridge, the ladder out of Adam, and into Christ. It's an escape out of one humanity into Another. It's an exodus out of Egypt and into the land that is Christ. It's the very ladder that Christ told Nathaniel that he would see. It is the flaming sword that guards the tree of life. (Genesis 3:24) And when you walk towards that tree, the sword cuts down the Adamic man, and the fire burns up the sacrifice.

The cross is literally an exodus out of one man, one life, one dwelling place, and into another. By the cross we have come to a new spiritual place to dwell in Christ. And this is exactly what the entire Bible speaks of with words like "Zion," "the mountain of the Lord," "the city of God," "heavenly Jerusalem," "the kingdom of God," "the land of promise".

Christ Himself has become the reality and fulfillment of the Land of Israel that Joshua brought the Israelites into. Christ is a land flowing with milk and honey. He's a land where you don't have to build your own cities, plant your own vineyards, or dig your own wells. He's a land where you can feed off of the produce of the land. He's a land where, just like Joshua showed us the moment he brought the Israelites over, the flesh profits nothing. Remember how Joshua had them all circumcised before they took one step in the Promised Land. The flesh profits nothing here! And this is fulfilled in us! Colossians tells us that "In Him (IN THE LAND!) you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ".

I may have wanted a practical instruction manual on how to live. But that is an Old Covenant mindset, because in this new relationship, the question is not "how," but "WHO". He is the life. You live in and by Him. He lives in you. And it is no longer a matter of instructions on how to modify natural behavior. Now it is the manifestation of the nature of Christ.

Let me say this very clearly. In the New Covenant, God is looking for a whole lot more than mere alterations to Adamic behavior. God is looking for His Son's life manifested in His Son's body, and we are that body.

Vern,
Perhaps your testimony of a recent personal experience of this being practically lived out would be helpful in illustrating that of which you speak 🙏🏻

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Fletcher

Though salvation has you dead to Adam and alive to God in Christ, the Lie still reigns in the darkened understanding of the unrenewed mind. (that we can be good or please God independently from Him) As such, it is cast off only when the residue of the first man is washed from the soul in the coming of Light.

I will say this - I used to believe that Lie, but I no longer do. I have learned that I am nothing apart from God." No, I have not. But I cannot say that. It is not that kind of a lie. It is not an intellectual deception that I can decide to part with. It is not a lack of information or education. I cannot put off the power of this Lie until I have put off the fullness of that man. Nor can I say that you have learned the fullness of the Truth any more than I can say I have grown up into the fullness of Christ. This Lie is not something I merely stop believing. This Lie is someone who must stop living.

The situation was much worse than I understood. The problem was not something I thought, it was something I was. "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do." Thus the solution that the Lord presented was something far greater than spiritual facts. According to Jesus, knowing the truth is an encounter with the Son who sets you free from yourself.

What I am saying is that the Lie is so much more than an idea or concept in the brain. It is the darkness of the fallen adamic mind that is eaten alive by self-awareness and felt need. It is not just one of our thoughts; it is the foundation for all of our thinking. It is the starting point of all that we perceive - a universe where man is center stage. It is a world-view where man has purpose, value, life, wisdom, and destiny independent of God; it is a false light by which man is able to imagine a life and purpose that has nothing to do with truth. "If the Light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness" (Mat 6:23). This delusion cannot be overcome by coming to believe that there is such a Lie. It is dealt with only when the man who is the Lie is put away by the cross. The Lie is defeated when the nature of darkness is confronted and destroyed by the Person of Light. Man's only hope is to gain another light, to find another lens, to see all things out from another Man - one who has called Himself the Truth, a Man who said "I am the light of the world" (Joh 8:12).

The true knowing of Christ is a veritable journey out of one man and into Another. It is not just the pardoning of offenses but a new Life by which we live, a new lens through which we see, a new Light in which we walk. It is the experience of the cross. The cross exists as the instrument of God for the destruction of the Lie. It is not only where Jesus died for you; it is where you are crucified to the Lie and the Lie is crucified to you. It is how we are "delivered from the power of darkness"

(Col 1:13) and become sons of Light. "For you formerly were darkness, but are now light in the Lord; walk as children of light" (Eph 5:8).

Every act of the Spirit of God is toward this end. The primary and perpetual occupation of the Holy Spirit is to teach the cross to the souls of redeemed humanity. And one of the very first things that we face under His instruction and tuition is that our problem is not with lying. Our problem is that we are the Lie. This is precisely what the Spirit of God brings into view when Christ begins to be revealed in you (Gal 1:16). You come to realize that the problem is more than a lack of light. The problem is that even your light is darkness, even your "righteousness is filthy rags" (Isa 64:6), even your facts fall short of the truth. You are not struggling with darkness; you are the darkness that you struggle with. By nature we are the darkness into which Christ must come and shine unto our displacement. The Light shows you to be the Lie and deals with you by the death of the cross. The cross of Christ is God's remedy to the Serpent's lie.