Hi,

I've been saved for seven years but it often feels like 7 minutes. When you don't grow up on Veggie Tales, promise rings, and John Calvin, there's much left to be discovered about the church, but the process of learning is very enjoyable.

Sometimes I suspect my curiosities are a bit annoying to others. Like if the veil has been torn, what's up with the mysterious smoking ball of incense in some churches? If Luther was such a beer enthusiast and Jesus turned water into wine, why do so many protestants treat even mild-moderate alcohol consumption as if it is sinning? Orthodox canon, Roman Catholic canon, Protestant canon... they all think their's is the inspired canon but we all know ___ is the true canon, but do we? I'm not looking to have these specific questions answered here, merely a part of the intro, but I do have one question for today.

Why does it seem that discipleship is nearly non-existent in the modern church? Sure you may have a weekly service, bible study, maybe a membership class, but are the days gone when someone who's been walking with God much longer takes you under their wing to mentor you, to keep you accountable, to mourn and rejoice with you? Or did that never exist? In my experience pastors aren't practically accessible. It takes weeks to months to get an appointment (I've tried several churches) just to ask some simple faith based questions. Speak to an elder you say. Fair enough, but should under-shepards be so far from the flock that it takes a corporate business like structure to arrange a meeting? Often the elders and volunteers are so busy with ministry they have no time for fellowship outside of the bible study or program they're assigned to. Concerning The Great Commission, how am I being a born again believer of seven years supposed to go out and make disciples when I haven't myself been adequately discipled?

Because tone is difficult to interpret online its important to say there is no anger in any of the above statements or inquiries. I don't doubt my salvation, I feel secure in Jesus' hand, and I do regularly attend a home church and bible study.

Thank you for your responses,

Awkward sheep

I’ve been a Christian for 50 years and I never had anyone “take me under their wing.” But I was raised in a Christian home.

Throughout the years I have been blessed to come across individuals who have challenged me to go deeper in various areas. One is my dearest friend and I would say he is a “generalist” in that his lifestyle is itself a testimony. But I have had others come along who have challenged me toward greater prayer, deeper Bible study, etc. Then I have come across others who have been instrumental in deconstructing certain doctrines that I at one time held as unassailable (eg dispensational eschatology, Calvinism, cessationism).

I am sure the type of mentoring you describe still happens, but I don’t think it is super common at least not in the USA.

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Todd

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Lisa

Welcome, Awkward Sheep!

I spent years struggling with the same things, looking for godly men who would help me to become a godly man myself. Fast forward 20 years, I now seek to provide for men that which I never had, but knew was needed. You are a member of the body of Christ. Push for Biblical discipleship. Challenge, in love, those around you. The Lord, who cares more for His church than any of us, will bless efforts to align your life and those around you to the Word of God.

Speaking of: Scripture is your bedrock. Read it. Know it. Love it. Do it.

Hi Awkwardsheep!

I think that you've been offered some great advice here. You also bring up some important points too.

There is a need for good teaching in the Body of Christ. There are a couple of passages that refer to this (i.e., Hebrews 5:12; I John 2:27). Teaching is counted among the gifts/roles mentioned in I Corinthians 12:28 -- behind only (first) apostles and (second) prophets.

Sadly, it often feels that there is a famine of good teaching in the Church today. Much of what is passed for teaching is often messages that focus upon postmodern sentimentalities or, sometimes, divisive doctrinal opinions.

Because of this, the best foundational discipleship that you can receive is from personally reading through the Word of God. I don't mean simply going through topical selections or readings. This is because even verses can be carefully selected on the basis of specific personal opinions from those who list such passages -- sometimes using them primarily as a means to a (doctrinal) end.

This is why reading the Bible book-by-book (or even cover-to-cover) is such a powerful thing! When the apostles taught the Word of God, they did so at a time when few people have copies of Scripture. This is one of the reasons why people went to the synagogue. They went to hear the scrolls read aloud.

We now live in a remarkable time where we can have multiple translations of the Bible available on phones that fit in our pockets! In addition, we have access to things like dictionaries, concordances, maps, source texts, etc. -- all on available on that same phone, tablet or computer (even accessible in certain apps)!

My advice to believers (new and more mature) is to search the Scriptures. This was one of the reasons why the Berean Jews were more "noble" than others. They searched (or "examined") the Scriptures to see if what Paul said was true.

When I first became a believer, I read the Bible cover-to-cover. I started with the New Testament, went back to the Old Testament and read through from Genesis through Revelation. My first journey through the New Testament was puzzling. Yet, I understood it more when I went through the Old Testament and then through the New Testament again. I think that I gain new insight each and every time that I read through the Word of God too.

You raise an important point about the need for discipleship. Yet, the teacher of all disciples is the Holy Spirit. He leads us and guides us into "all the truth" (John 16:13). So, with the Holy Spirit as our teacher and the books contained within the Word of God as our texts, we are His disciples. This works even when a local church might not be quite so apt at discipleship.

After all, we have been called out of darkness and into His marvelous light (I Peter 2:9). Where does that light come from? The Word of God! It is really amazing when you consider the words of John 1:1-5.

I've actually received criticism for urging people to read the Bible from cover-to-cover. Yet, it is a good thing to read the Bible from cover-to-cover. It's the basis for all of our doctrines and is sufficient in and of itself to give us a basis for our beliefs. In fact, I like to be pliable enough to lay aside any preconceived notions when I read the Word of God -- willing to receive whatever doctrinal reproof needed as I read through the Scriptures.

Still, I often suggest (with the New Testament) to read Luke and Acts first -- because Luke also wrote the book of Acts. Then, I sometimes read Galatians next (because of Paul's testimony in the epistle to the Galatians). After this, I then read the entire New Testament before shifting back to the Old Testament. So, I essentially prefer to read the Bible this way:

Luke
Acts
Galatians

New Testament (Matthew through Revelation)
Old Testament (Genesis through Malachi)

My wife and I began doing this some time back. We have time set aside each morning where we read the Bible aloud in this manner (followed by praying together). In our case, I read it aloud -- verse-by-verse, chapter-by-chapter -- while she follows along in her Bible. It has been a wonderfully marvelous change compared to our own personal or collective topical studies. We're currently on our fourth trip through the Word of God in this manner.

We also listen to several Bible teachers that focus on the passages that we've read. Now, I don't feel beholden to any particular teacher. After all, they are just fallible men. That said, I do listen to what they say while still cautious enough to know that they aren't perfect in everything. I like to hear individuals like Chuck Smith, J. Vernon McGee, Skip Heitzig, etc. Most of them have their chapter-by-chapter teaching catalog available for free online.

*EDIT - I should also add that I don't mind topical messages or teachings. I just think that these should be in addition to rather than in place of our regular reading through the Word of God. There are some great topical messages available here at SermonIndex (in audio or print form). Someone just posted a great message from Watchman Nee that is very fascinating!

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Christopher

Hi,

Thanks for the replies everyone. It does seem my experience is an amalgamation of occasional influences of fellow believers plus books and other forms of media. Maybe I'm romanticizing it too much, but which born again christian wouldn't want that experience (original post)? It does make me wonder if there was ever a time when the church was so strong and numerous that it was considered normal, or rather when any country was a "christian nation" back in the good old days, was it merely the common thing to do with the majority engaged in a mediocre walk.

I appreciate the advise and thoughts everyone contributed.

Have a good one.