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AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 4275
Louisiana

 Re:

We first must ask the Lord to search our hearts before we can help others. We bring correction in a spirit of meekness.


“You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.” (Matthew 7:5)


For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? (1 Peter 4:17).


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Mike

 2022/9/8 12:58Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2167


 Re:

I was also thinking Mathew 7;5 sin out of our life first. The eye is the lamp of the body ,and also If thy eye be single . A pure heart 💓 releases a spirt of restoration rather then judment and condemnation. Rompns14 10But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of [c]Christ. 11For it is written:

“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”
12So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13Therefore let us not judge one another [d]anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.🙏🔥✝️🕎🍷🍞

 2022/9/8 17:42Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6296
NC, USA

 Re:

“We have judged our fellow men as sinners. If God should judge us like that we would be in hell. God judges us through the marvelous Atonement of Jesus Christ.” - Oswald Chambers, from Run Today's Race

"Jesus' instructions with regard to judging others is very simply put; He says, 'Don't.' Stop having a measuring stick for other people. There is always at least one more fact, which we know nothing about, in every person's situation. If I see a speck in your eye, it means that I have a plank of timber in my own. I have never met a person I could despair of, or lose all hope for, after discerning what lies in me apart from the grace of God." --Oswald Chambers, from My Utmost for His Highest.


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Todd

 2022/9/8 18:41Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2167


 Re:

Might seem a little bit off topic but god doesn't judge from the outward appearance but he looks into the heart in the spirit. Look how Jesus judged the crazy violent man in the tomb. Most of us would see a mentally deranged possibly psychopath. But Jesus saw the demons and judged them and cast them out of the man and set him free. What about Mary Magdalene he saw 7 demons in Her and set her free. People need to be set free and delivered and that only comes when one loves enough and obeys Jesus commands. Loving your neighbour as yourself and loving your enemy brings about deliverance. Many people caught up in sin and bound with the demonic need to encounter the anointing in us. I think Derek Prince was a fine example of someone who who saw the spirits behind compulsive sinfull behaviour and he dealt with it and taught others to deal with it and he became one of the stalwarts of freedom. If we fall into the the trap the dark cave of judging our brothers and sisters we can never do what Derek Prince did and help to set people free. One of the main reasons we have so much sin within the body of Christ is because this is not being practised, people are too busy recognising sin and condemning and looking on the outward appearance rather than using the gift of discerning of spirits. There's a lot of talk about the gifts of the spirit but there's a lot of practical cessationists. That just talk about the gifts of the spirit but are never able to use them . Because of their own disobedience it's such an ironic thing, having disobedience in our life but pointing it out in others. And having a spirit of Pride that makes us feel like we're doing gods work. I believe I'm not speaking from ignorance that I was doing the same thing myself. So for me this is about my life and what I've gone through the sins of judgement and unbelief are the real plague in the church. There can be no true holiness and depth of sanctification until we deal with those two sins unforgiveness will flow from those two sins. Pride judgement and unbelief are bound together, and always creates a demonic stronghold in a person's life and a cloud of deception that one can't even see it unless the Holy spirit reveals it.

 2022/9/8 19:17Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1774
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: what say ye?

1 Corinthians 5:

11 I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer[a] yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people.

12 It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. 13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”


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Fletcher

 2022/9/9 8:02Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2167


 Re:

I just cut and paste this from from part of what I wrote towards the bottom of this page.... ((((((My point was rebuking the enemies and trying to bring correction to them is not biblical this is what Paul says about it 3unloving, [b]unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! . ))))


 2022/9/9 8:13Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2167


 Re:

Brother that was the scripture that Mike was bringing up. A form of church discipline it wasn't being practised properly in the Corinthian church by its leaders and probably the congregation were because of bad leadership were fellowshipping with serious unrepentant sinners . In that case I believe that's actually referring to an actual brother in Christ who had his father's mother Paul talked about him and told them to hand such Satan for for discipline so he had to be judged as a sinner not in the sense that that it's ok to hate or not love him. The practise of shunning which we see in 2nd Corinthians Paul told them to restore him back into fellowship. So I think Paul's dealing with both you could say enemies of the Cross who were probably infiltrating the church called themselves brother's but they still practised idolatry and he was directly speaking about a matter he had heard about through other brothers in the church it was directly related to a sinning brother. But in reality it was the leaders and the elders job to judge him as a sinner and handing over to Satan or to judge the and discern the false Brothers and not allow them into fellowship and to teach the congregation to not eat or fellowship with that type of person like Paul said to Timothy completely avoid the enemies of the Cross.

 2022/9/9 8:22Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2167


 Re:

Brother I think we need to make the clear distinction between discernment from a mature believer who has his senses exercised as the writer of Hebrews talks about, and then the gift of discerning of spirits which is used to discern the spirit that a person may be operating in. These two things would be used buy Christians and especially matured elders leaders in the church to combine with church discipline and shunning. And then on the other hand we have false judgement and condemnation that is addressed by Jesus and the apostle Paul which is sinfull, and in itself arises from the flesh and from a root of Pride and even a religious demonic spirit like the one the Pharisees were oppressed by.

 2022/9/9 8:28Profile
Filipe_Costa
Member



Joined: 2022/8/10
Posts: 12
Brazil

 Re:

Hello brothers,
It seems that this topic has gone further than I expected.

Dear Gary, allow me to disagree biblically with what you said regarding the enemies of the cross.
The first analysis would be the immediate context, in verse 19 of Philippians 3, Paul explains who the enemies of the cross are
"Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things."

The enemies of the cross are those who think of themselves, of their satisfaction, of their belly, and also those who keep their minds on the things of this world.

Of course, as we read the beginning of chapter 3, Paul talks about the Judaizers.
But we must always remember that the Word of God is alive (Hebrews 12).
What was written 2000 years ago is still alive and applicable today.

Regarding the issue of judgment, I need to talk a little about it, analyzing how the world is today and what the bible says.

First of all, we need to keep in mind that judgment is not something taken from the mind of each one, but according to righteous judgment.
We must not judge anyone using our ideas, but the Word itself, for that is what will judge on the last day. (John 12:48)

In Judges 17:6 it says:
"In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes".

We can see in the context of the passage the confusion that people had, precisely because there was no one who could guide them and correct them from their sins.

In my country there is a false doctrine that basically says:
"No one can judge me, because God knows my heart"

I know a person who lives in the practice of sin, he has even been caught, but he still says that God knows his heart, and no one has the right to judge him, as Matthew 7 says.
Now, let me say something.

In Matthew chapter 7, the fact that we do not judge the other, does not mean that we will not be judged by God, because we will all appear before the judgment seat of Christ to give an account of our lives.

The issue is whether we are a hypocrite. It is when I condemn someone for looking at a woman in the street with a sinful desire, but I am living in adultery.
The point is that I correct my life first and then help in correcting the other. We can have as a principle to always look at the mistakes of others as a speck and our own always as a beam, so that we can consider them better than ourselves and help them.

But judgment must be made in the house of God. (1 Peter 4:17)
Things are the way they are, precisely because no one likes to talk about another's sin so that no one talks about their sin.

A pastor once said to me:
"Don't judge your brother for this sin, because tomorrow you might commit the same sin."
So is that the parameter? I treat people in sin in a normal way so that if I fall tomorrow they will treat me well?

What's the problem with the judgment?
Those who are afraid of judgment are those who are wrong.
I suppose none of us are afraid of the police breaking into our house, arresting us, and taking us before the judge. Why?
Because we don't have to fear, we are living right.
But if perhaps we are living in the wrong way, then we start to fear.

The one who fears judgment is usually the one who lives wrongly, whether because of open sins or hidden sins.
Unfortunately today there is the theology of self-esteem. Many preachers, instead of looking at people as sinners who need Christ, look at them as victims of a system, a society and even of the church.
Through their self-help, motivational messages, they try to generate motivation and enthusiasm in this type of person.
That's why we have inclusive churches today.
They like to preach about forgiveness, but not about salvation.

I agree with you Gary about those who are still new to Christ.
One wrong thing I've seen happen is comparing our maturity today (which took years to happen) with those who have just arrived at the church, sometimes they are pressured to grow in a few months what took years to happen in us.

We need to be fair.

The point of a Christian is always to save men and awaken them to the knowledge of the truth.


_________________
Filipe Costa

 2022/9/9 12:53Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6296
NC, USA

 Re:

//The enemies of the cross are those who think of themselves, of their satisfaction, of their belly, and also those who keep their minds on the things of this world.//

But these people are not Christians. They are not born again.

The issue then would seem to be how to treat these “enemies of the cross.”


_________________
Todd

 2022/9/9 17:30Profile





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