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AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 4184
Louisiana

 Re:

It is possible for a Christian to fall away from
the faith, and there are many admonitions
in the Word concerning this.

1 Timothy 4:1 ESV

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV / 358 helpful votes

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Revelation 2:4-5 ESV

But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

Hebrews 3:12-19 ESV /

Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end. As it is said, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.” For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses? ...

Matthew 24:10-13 ESV /

And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

2 Peter 2:20-22 ESV /

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

2 Corinthians 11:3 ESV /

But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.

Romans 11:19-22 ESV /

Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

James 1:12 ESV /


_________________
Mike

 2022/9/7 14:33Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6277
NC, USA

 Re:

One is not saved by 80% obedience—nor by 100% obedience (which actually is possible over short periods, by the way). One is saved by having genuinely embraced the King and the life that logically follows from having such a King. None obeys completely, but we are commanded to do so, and true disciples have every intention of doing so. Failure to obey completely is a breach of the King's law, but it is not, in itself, damning. To inadvertently violate the speed limit is not to renounce your citizenship. Likewise, a child is not disowned by his parents because he forgets to do a particular assigned chore. There is grace in this Kingdom for those whose disobedience springs from weakness, ignorance or temporary insanity (James 3:2), and not from rebellion (Matt.26:41).


_________________
Todd

 2022/9/7 15:19Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1754
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: ???

Todd,
You wrote “ One is saved by having genuinely embraced the King and the life that logically follows from having such a King”

😳

Where does your Bible say this??

Mine says,
“Except ye repent..”
“Except ya be born again...”
“If you say you love me but you don’t obey me, you are a liar and the truth is not in you “

Reconcile-


_________________
Fletcher

 2022/9/7 16:01Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 4184
Louisiana

 Re:

Todd, read your bible!

Opinions mean little or nothing
when not based on the Word of God.


_________________
Mike

 2022/9/7 16:51Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2155


 Re:

All I was saying Brother is we better be right when we make that distinction and we better be using true discernment or the gift of discerning of spirits to know who we are dealing with otherwise we can' cast false judgement which is an extremely serious sin for Christians to participate in and this sin
is widely overlooked in Bible believing churches. I would never deny some of the abomination that is crept into the church and even into leadership positions. But you and me as a Christian have a sphere of influence and authority and in most cases it's in our local congregation we don't have an apostolic mantle on us that allows us to go around to 100 different churches and rebuke and reprove the false teachers. Heresy hunting is not a gift of the spirit and it's neither a 5 fold calling. And even an elder of the local church has a certain amount of authority within that body of believers. Complaining and lamenting about the problems in Christianity doesn't solve any of it. In most cases you won't convert one enemy of the Cross to become a true born-again Christian by rebuke. And to be honest most of us don't hold any positions of authority in churches, and are not even given the right to even rebuke an elder. This is what Paul said to Timothy and Timothy was probably an apostle. So we have to be real about what our calling is and what we are we called to do. All of us a called to exhort one another daily, and to build one another up with the gifts that we've been given, Not one person of the congregation is given a mandate to run around pointing out the abominations in the harlot churches. Even in 2nd Timothy chapter 3 where it says that in the last days perilous times will come for men will be lovers of themselves lovers of money boosters ext, v9 says they will progress no further for their folloy will be manifest to all. This vers also is fulfilled the folly and the sin is clear to see. Our calling is to not fellowship with the enemies not to try and extend our limited authority into these dens and rebuke them . In reality we're not even to sit down and eat or to talk with them. And talking about them does nothing to help our devotions and our prayer life. Many people have talked about the same thing for 10:15 20 years and it's still achieves nothing. If there will ever be any change it'll only ever be through the awakening a great revival that God may possibly show mercy on some fellowships that are not too far gone we are to give ourselves over to the spirit of intercession and allow the Holy spirit to pray through us with groans that cannot be uttered, as a prophet of old pleaded for Israel in there sin , we should come to God with a pure heart and allow the Holy spirit to use us as a vessel to intercede on us and the church..

 2022/9/7 18:18Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6277
NC, USA

 Re:

//Todd, read your bible!

Opinions mean little or nothing
when not based on the Word of God//

I’m not sure either you or Fletcher read what I wrote very carefully.


_________________
Todd

 2022/9/7 18:32Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1754
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Gary

We seem to be talking past one another as there is no disagreement on my end with what you’re saying, and while I can wholeheartedly agree with your point, there is more to the story so to speak...

We are to exhort, but also rebuke
We are to encourage, but also reprove
We are to fellowship, but also to contend

And while there is not a “ministry of correction” by name, there is in scripture a distinct fulfillment of the need of correcting by the prophets...

We (the modern church) by and large, concern ourselves with the quantity where in the scriptures we find Jesus always whittling down to get to the quality. Always raising the bar to incomparable heights where no flesh may glory and where God alone is capable and therefore worthy of it all ✝️🙏🏻

We we all born into a spiritual war that has been raging for millennia, this is a central theme throughout the scriptures. Because of this we are setting people up for perpetual defeat and ultimately death by not requiring discipleship just as Jesus and the Apostles did. A believer who is born again has to be discipled and equipped, else he is not only a defenseless target for the enemy but is completely unprofitable for the Lord at no fault of his own 🤷🏽‍♂️
This is why we have so many programs tryin to get people free, or fix their marriage, or their addiction, or there...(whatever).
All of that gets sorted out rather quickly in a disciplined fellowship-
But even in our most disciplined there is yet a lack of equipping,... and this is far more costly because we are like the British cops in a comedy skit- “STOP! ..... or I’ll say STOP! again...”
there is no real threat to the enemy, so it’s mostly just “make believe” .
Paul says it and I believe it 💯 that our weapons are mighty for the pulling down of strongholds and ANY PRETENSE that exalts itself against the knowledge of Christ-
After the transformation on the mount, Jesus told Peter that the “gates of Hell shall not prevail against His kingdom“ .
Gates are a defensive measure,.... we are on offense folks, amour up .


_________________
Fletcher

 2022/9/7 22:42Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2155


 Re:

Brother I wasn't addressing you in the first place, and I agree with what you're saying. It was really the original post. And the idea of making sure we're not judging our brothers in Christ who are babes in Christ and those who may have demonic bondage in their life and need deliverance from. And comparing that to the enemies of the Cross of Christ. My point was rebuking the enemies and trying to bring correction to them is not biblical this is what Paul says about it 3unloving, [b]unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! . What we seem to forget and I'm speaking in general about born again Christians and even spirit-filled soto speak, that false judgement is an extremely serious sin that many people seem to ignore yet love to point out the Sins in the church and even misjudge Christians as enemies. This type of sin will quench and even grieve the Holy spirit as much as any Carnal babe in Christ or Carnal Christian Would. And we wonder why as a church we're not moving with revival with Holy spirit fire. And I'm not talking about you brother. Many congregations because of the sin false judgement remain far removed from the spirit of revival. All the while pointing their fingers at everyone else. Judgement can become a stronghold in a person's life and with that is attached a demonic spirit which many would even say is a religious spirit. It's that series that you can go into bondage, and that bondage leads to a deception where one can't even see or realise that they're in the bondage due to the spirits of judgement. This is why the apostle Paul and Jesus spoke very firmly against judging one another. It becomes an open door and a root that produces other sins, because it is so closely linked with the sin of Pride. One of Satan's main objectives is to keep this sin active in the church and to keep it hidden because while he does that he knows that the Holy spirit will never be poured out upon a people that practise false judgement, it is as yeast. Brother and I have to repeat I'm not talking about you I'm speaking in the general way because there are quite a lot of denominations that practise judgement and claim it to be religion. And these are not enemies of the Cross these are born again bible-believing churches that do this. And I want nothing more then for a revival to come and sweep all the churches but it's not going to happen with some because they will not prepare heart in humility. False judgement is an extremely serious sin like unforgiveness and it needs to be dealt with. 🙏🍞🍷🕎✝️

 2022/9/7 23:49Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 4184
Louisiana

 Re:

“that false judgement is an extremely serious sin that many people seem to ignore yet love to point out the Sins in the church and even misjudge Christians as enemies. This type of sin will quench and even grieve the Holy spirit as much as any Carnal babe in Christ or Carnal Christian Would. And we wonder why as a church we're not moving with revival with Holy spirit fire. “

“Do not judge by the outward appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
( John 7:24)

“But now I am writing you not to associate with anyone who claims to be a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a verbal abuser, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. 12What business of mine is it to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?…” (1 Corinthians 5:11,12)

I agree brother that unrighteous judgment is a serious sin, but the Apostle Paul rebuked the Corinthian church for not judging the man that was living in open sin. There is a righteous judgment, with a redemptive purpose not to condemn,
but to bring to repentance and restore to fellowship.


_________________
Mike

 2022/9/8 8:52Profile
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2155


 Re:

Thats is church disapline brother,and the leaders weren't doing their job description. They could not resolve simple matters at a leadership level. And used pagan Court systems as well.They were in a mess.

 2022/9/8 9:49Profile





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