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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : One Biblical Qualification For An Apostle

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drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 861
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Jackie Pullinger; two books every christian should read are Chasing The Dragon and Crack In The Wall, both written by her.

However, I don't think she would call herself an apostle if you asked her.


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Nigel Holland

 2022/5/9 21:52Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1739
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: platy

Brother, I love you and very much appreciate what you’ve brought to discussion here and whole heartedly agree with not only your considerate presentation of the matter as well as the above passages quoted from Saints.

I’m only objecting to the hyper-specificity of the conclusion and while I don’t want to become a “Cervantes” , how can I not object, when “IF” your point were 100% accurate then it would by extension negate itself as another “qualifier” gets tabled because now that also means they were all not only corporeal witnesses to the resurrected Christ but they were all also Jews...
so there’s a second one....

There’s a clear sequence in scripture- first to the Jew,... then to the gentile.

That’s how the whole development of the body of Christ took place with the Jews being a “first fruits” of sorts, and that same sequence has naturally played out in regards to the gifts (five fold) given to exercise the body in the mission of advancing Christ’s Kingdom (advancing is a military maneuver)
To say the five fold wasn’t in effect today would be to say that the “church” today, (the body of Christ) was not only sedentary and inactive but wholly ineffective at the task of advancing Christ’s kingdom (not the church kingdom) and ultimately impotent to that end and that is it’s current testimony....
today there many good and godly people in churches all over the world, sincere believers, full of faith, but when there is no Apostle then you have none of Gods foundational authority and it inevitably turns into a bureaucracy which wholly incapable of facilitating something it’s not equipped for .... that’s where the five fold are a necessity, without which the body would be brought under the headship of the church and that is where this idea was canonized ... in the papacy-

That’s where there was not just a split but a quiet divorce where the church now was it’s own head and had “reset” ... this was all under the “media cover” of the church no longer being persecuted but instead promoted and it was celebrated as a blessing from God... they got their “king” but was this king from God 🤔
There would be no reason to persecute the body when the mature disciple makers had been martyred,.... why kill the sheep when you now own the rights to the “name”?? Anyone with any authority to object were already departed to Christ... to say “rights to the name” is to say the “church” had been formally recognized by the state and there was a mutually beneficial agreement between the two, but this was an affront to Christ, the true Head of His body....
why was this an affront?? because The church now became dependent on the “state” for its strategic operations no longer being “founded” on the Apostles and Prophets other than ornamentation. Now the five fold had been replaced with papacy, bishops, cardinals, etc... all of whom were under the direction of themselves and merely posing as ambassadors.
That doesn’t mean that a catholic can’t be sincere in their faith towards God, it just means they were birthed and raised in “Egypt” and because they were born i(spiritually) captives the they were kept from growing to full maturity in Christlikeness because they were being grown in churchlikeness ....
the Protestants are no different but that they simply adopted a different structure, still the result was the same... governing bodies no where mentioned much less ordained and anointed for the work of Christ’s body, rather these are ordained and anointed by the governing bodies of the church to do the work of the church .... hence “narcissistic christianity” which is what we mostly have backslidden into today.

It takes the five fold active to keep the body healthy because God ordained it and never revoked it (as a legal matter would require) not to mention the inherent (currently vacant)) authority that comes with said ordination and anointing.
The result is a lowering of the standard set by God in Christ Jesus to the current promotion of the “church”. It’s no different than as in the time of Jesus, the once beautiful church had become a den of thieves, a whitewashed sepulcher filled with dead men’s bones.... there’s nothing new under the sun -

But God has already (this year) united His body under His headship, and it’s a testimony against the church that He had to do it.
As He liveth, the five fold has always equipped the body of Christ.... in spite of the church which is also observable by the reformation alone 🙏🏻

not coincidentally you quoted from Job a very dear passage but you left off my favorite part,...the evidence that he had “seen” God
...6: Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

When the prodigal church does that ☝🏼 then the world will be a better place
That’s about the only thing that could change anything other than God Himself intervening due to our failure to carry out the mission He gave His life for ✝️








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Fletcher

 2022/5/9 23:05Profile
murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1635
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: You interpret that as Timothy being sent to them and not sent out.

Man you just ignore the scripture that I pointed out and that's the second time you have done that.

1 Thess 1:1 This letter is from Paul, Silas, and Timothy. We are writing to the church in Thessalonica, to you who belong to God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. May God give you grace and peace.

Who is the letter from - Paul, Silas, and Timothy

1 Thess 2:6 Nor did we seek glory from people, whether from you or from others, though we could have made demands as apostles of Christ.

If you read 1 Thess you'll that 3 men were sent to them. Then Timothy was sent and then returned to Paul.

I doubt you'll be able to see it...



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Colin Murray

 2022/5/10 3:02Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1635
Scotland, UK

 Re:

From the Berean study bible (another translation):

1 Thessalonians 3:1-2 - 1So when we could bear it no longer, we were willing to be left on our own in Athens. 2 We sent Timothy, our brother and fellow worker for God in the gospel of Christ, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith,

https://biblehub.com/bsb/1_thessalonians/3.htm

All your confirming is that Timothy was sent - what does that prove only that he is one who has been sent (Apostle)

As I said and will keep saying - 3 men were sent, then Timothy was sent and the return with a good report.

But you keep ignoring that.


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Colin Murray

 2022/5/10 3:10Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1635
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: However, I don't think she would call herself an apostle if you asked her.

I don't think she would either - but she would call herself a missionary.

If you look at the root word meaning for Apostle in greek and missionary in latin both means "sent off"

In scripture there is no "missionary" that's a catholic thing and I think the Jesuits were the first "missionaries"

I had a better experience than reading a book, not long after I started going to church some Triads came to a fishing town in the North East of Scotland and I was set free form drugs after being prayed for not right away in the church it was once I was at home that night.

The Love of Jesus just swept over me like a wave and engulfed me all that I could do was weep I was set free.


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Colin Murray

 2022/5/10 3:24Profile
Platy
Member



Joined: 2019/10/5
Posts: 285


 Re: Colin

I went back and reread some of your previous posts and I misread what you were trying to say. I see what you were saying.

The problem still remains that Paul uses the word "we" inconsistently. As I mentioned before in 1 Thessalonians chapter 2:

1 Thessalonians 2:2 - 2But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.

It was Paul and Silas who were beaten in the book of Acts. I know you said it included Timothy but that is not what the text says in the book of Acts in the verses below.

From Acts 16 -
Paul and Silas in Prison

16And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: 17The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. 18And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour. 19And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers, 20And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, 21And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans. 22And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them. 23And when they had laid many stripes upon them, they cast them into prison, charging the jailor to keep them safely: 24Who, having received such a charge, thrust them into the inner prison, and made their feet fast in the stocks.

The Conversion of the Jailer

25And at midnight Paul and Silas prayed, and sang praises unto God: and the prisoners heard them. 26And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed. 27And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled. 28But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here. 29Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. 34And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

The other verse:
1 Thessalonians 3:1 - 1Wherefore when we could no longer forbear, we thought it good to be left at Athens alone; 2And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith:

In the book of Acts it was Paul who was left alone at Athens. There may have been some others with him but it was not Timothy or Silas. So who is he referring to in the above verse and where are they referenced to in 1 Thessalonians?

From Acts 17 -

13But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people. 14And then immediately the brethren sent away Paul to go as it were to the sea: but Silas and Timotheus abode there still. 15And they that conducted Paul brought him unto Athens: and receiving a commandment unto Silas and Timotheus for to come to him with all speed, they departed.

Paul at Athens

16Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry. 17Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him. 18Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection. 19And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is? 20For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean. 21(For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)

 2022/5/10 10:42Profile





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