SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Access over 100,000+ Sermons from Ancient to Modern
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : One Biblical Qualification For An Apostle

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
PosterThread
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2081


 Re:

Hi Drifter,
So I believe its scriptural to say that the Twelve Apostles are a category of Apostles that unique to all other Apostles including Paul.

The Twelve qualifications are listed in Acts clearly.
Paul came after the Twelve which shows that their could be Apostles (with Authority) after the Twelve.

I think its heresy to say that their cant be Apostles after the first century.No where is their scriptures to say that their wont be any more Apostles.In fact its clear in the listings of the gifts that without Apostles the Church will not function properly.How could it without the leading gift.

Do I think we have Apostles today?
Absolutely no we dont.The proof is in the pudding .If we had Apostles today at the head of the Church their would be no denominations,
urs staff


 2022/5/6 9:22Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 861
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

We are led by the apostles through their writings. Even though they are dead they are still speaking to our generation (Hebrews 11:4). Their authority is not diminished. Remember also that the first century church was not perfect. We have a tendency to romanticize the early church. It's clear to me when I read Acts and the epistles that they had all the same problems we have today. There were people that were schismatics, believers separating themselves into groups by what church leader they followed (1 Corinthians 1:12 and 3:4), antinomianism, antitrinitarianism, etc.

It is clear to me that God still hand picks men of God who lead the church in every generation, and true believers recognize their authority.

Brother, if God meant for the apostolic office to continue, there would BE apostles.

Also, in regards to denominations, many times they are formed after genuine movements of God, and people form them out of good intentions, wanting to continue the revival that group of people experience. Human nature is to try to reduce things to neat formulas. I think many denominations have far outlived their usefulness and original goals and should be disbanded.


_________________
Nigel Holland

 2022/5/6 17:13Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2081


 Re:

Hi Drifter,
If its a case that we are led by the Apostles through their writing then
We can say the same for teachers ,pastors etc.
All writings in the bible speak to future and present generations but it doesnt negate in anyway that gifts are needed in the here and now.If you negate Apostleship or the possiblity of Apostleship then you have to negate all the other gifts .
Its not a romantic view of the past to say that the Church functioned better in the first century than it does now.

The office of Apostle has always existed but without Apostles this is the problem.Why we dont have Apostles has nothing to do with Apostles stopping in the first century.Their is not one scripture to support that view.

Also schisms happened but Paul had the Authority to counter that.
On denominations :Denominations are not from God full stop.Its where we are at fair enough but none of them are from God.Alot of them have Christian leaders but the structure is not from God.
You are in my opinion adding 2 and 2 together and getting 5.
You are using experiential doctrine to explain the absence of Apostles.You are saying that because we have had no Apostles since the first century then it must be in the bible which it is not.Its totally fair to say that we have had no Apostles (to the best of our knowledge) since the first century but its not fair to say we cant have or dont need Apostles in the present Church because its all written down.No where in the bible does it say that because its written down we dont need the Church gifts,urs staff

 2022/5/6 18:21Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 861
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

Guys like John Wesley, William Booth or A.B. Simpson didn't start their particular denominations with bad intentions. Wesley, for example, did not see the living word being preached, a lot of the preaching then was dead letter with no life in it, people were not being born again by and large, so, because most of the churches kicked him out and would not have anything to do with him, he started a new group. I'm sure if he was given the opportunity, he would have stayed in the church of England. He accepted believers of any denomination, so long as they were born again. In many cases, people who started new denominations had no choice if they wanted to be faithful to God.

Brother, what do you think the reason is that there are no apostles today?


_________________
Nigel Holland

 2022/5/6 20:21Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3518
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re:

Quote:
Drifter:
Brother, if God meant for the apostolic office to continue, there would BE apostles.


How do you KNOW that there are not apostles?


_________________
Lisa

 2022/5/7 9:57Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2081


 Re:

Hi Drifter,
I dont know is the only answer I can give.Maybe in the future God will reveal the answer.The only thing that harbours in my mind is that maybe its like the silent period before Jesus came the first time when Prophets were not around,


"Brother, what do you think the reason is that there are no apostles today?"

urs staff

 2022/5/7 13:56Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 861
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

Lysa, can you show me one? And as I stated earlier, said apostle can't have dubious credentials, make false prophecies, hold to erroneous doctrine, support and promote known heretics like William Branham (who was affiliated with the Ku Klux Klan and Jim Jones and denied the Trinity) like some of the the NAR leaders. Anyone can SAY they are an apostle, it doesn't make them one. Even amassing a huge following and gaining acceptance among evangelical leaders doesn't lend to one's credibility.


_________________
Nigel Holland

 2022/5/7 22:34Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1635
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Acts 13 1-3 Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manen a lifelong friend of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off.

So Acts 13 So a group of teacher and prophets worshiping and prayed and the Holy Spirit said - "set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”

Now, when they were sent out they were prophets and teachers but if you read on in the next chapter of Acts, chapter 14, about the same two men, it says at one point: The multitude of the city was divided. Part sided with the Jews and part with the apostles. In verse 14 it says: When the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard this... So they had become apostles.

How had they become apostles?

By being sent out from a church through the direction of the Holy Spirit. You see, the meaning of the word apostle is ‘one who is sent out.’ If you’ve not been sent out you’re not an apostle. So, here are two men who are not in the original twelve, Paul and Barnabas are now called apostles.

How did they become apostles?

By the appointment of the Holy Spirit.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2022/5/8 3:55Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2081


 Re:

Hi Drifter,
I am not sure are you talking about someone specific but I think most people would agree with your statement below.
It doesnt negate though the fact that it is still possible for their to be Apostles.I cant see any but it doesnt mean their cant be any ,urs staff

"And as I stated earlier, said apostle can't have dubious credentials, make false prophecies, hold to erroneous doctrine, support and promote known heretics like William Branham (who was affiliated with the Ku Klux Klan and Jim Jones and denied the Trinity) like some of the the NAR leaders. Anyone can SAY they are an apostle, it doesn't make them one. Even amassing a huge following and gaining acceptance among evangelical leaders doesn't lend to one's credibility."

 2022/5/8 14:34Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 861
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

I'm referring to the New Apostolic Reformation; they say they have restored the office of apostle to the church. They also say every local and regional church must be under the authority of an apostle (it "just happens" to be them) or they are living in disobedience to God. The main leaders of this movement are people like the late C. Peter Wagner, Bill Johnson, Rick Joyner, Che Ahn, and Heidi Baker.

Here is a good article summarizing their movement:
https://www.gotquestions.org/New-Apostolic-Reformation.html


_________________
Nigel Holland

 2022/5/8 15:53Profile





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy