SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Access over 100,000+ Sermons from Ancient to Modern
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : General Topics : Deception a Bible word Study and self deception

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )
PosterThread
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re: JFW

"Peter comes to mind, when he stepped out of the boat on faith, his faith was indeed an actual substance capable of supporting him, until which time he lost focus on the object of his faith and answered the door where doubt/fear were knocking, at which point the “substance” lost its “ stance”
Whereas later, after Peters faith had been refined and tested, we see this “stance” was restored, being evidenced by hope and producing joy 🙏🏻 "


I am in one accord with what you have posted. The example you have given us of Peter is a timely illustration of what we are working out here in this thread. We are given another example of how God worked in Peter's life concerning the testing and refining process found within the precept of faith.

This event in Peter's life is given to us in Scripture. We are given a testimony of a sequence of events which Peter experienced when he rejected Christ.

Jhn 13:37

Peter said to Him, “Lord, why can I not follow You now? I will lay down my life for Your sake.”

Jhn 13:38

Jesus answered him, “Will you lay down your life for My sake? Most assuredly, I say to you, the rooster shall not crow till you have denied Me three times.

Also....

Luk 22:31

And the Lord said,[fn] “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat.

Luk 22:32

“But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”


We have this testimony of Peter's experience with God. We know from other examples given us of Peter's story that over the process of time, through the workmanship of God, Peter would carry out what God had ordained for his life.
Peter's weakness, his failings, his lack of understanding, is given to us as an example so that we might too learn how faith changes us, how faith causes us to enter into His rest.

Hebrews 11:1

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for..."

I missed this earlier in trying to work out this thought... "substance of things hoped for": would you consider "things" to encompass Peter's experiences given to us in Scripture?


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2022/4/6 12:21Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1710
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: rookie

You wrote: “I missed this earlier in trying to work out this thought... "substance of things hoped for": would you consider "things" to encompass Peter's experiences given to us in Scripture?”

Yes indeed and that’s an interesting “thing “...

Here is a place where Jesus points to the same hopeful thing-
Mat 18:19
Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing G4229 that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.


You posted ;

“ Luk 22:31

And the Lord said,[fn] “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat.

Luk 22:32

“But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”



There is quite a lot in this particular passage, that may require its own attention and maybe it’s own table even.


( Jeff )
Something that you posted several years ago regarding the eternal image of the Godhead, gridding out the tribes by their location/population, arriving at the cross with the temple in the middle, had a significant impact and was a particular blessing to me. It was a discovery worthy of the grace it took to work it out ✝️
...in fact that ☝🏼 is a “thing G4229”


_________________
Fletcher

 2022/4/6 23:08Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re: JFW

Thank you for highlighting G4229. I fail much to often in seeking out word meanings in the concordance. G4229 adds clarity to our discussion.

So meditating on this passage...

"Now faith is the substance of things..."

Now drilling down further, "...substance of things..."

As we examine Scripture, and in particular, the testimonies given to us of faithful individuals, we are given "things" that the individual experienced as God worked.

This is hard to properly word this question...for me the word "substance" is exploding as I contemplate the implications.

How are we to understand "substance" in light of "things"?


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2022/4/7 12:03Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1710
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: rookie

“ This is hard to properly word this question...for me the word "substance" is exploding as I contemplate the implications.

How are we to understand "substance" in light of "things"?”

(for me) oil and flame (light) serve well to illustrate substance/thing relationship-

...and yes the potential for “substance” abounds in scripture, and what’s more, in our experiences or testimonies 🙏🏻
It is difficult (for me) to express without inspiration (Holy Spirit) because no matter how clear it may be, without Him there is no life in it, no (flame) light.

Having said that, in one sense, He is both the oil and the flame.
The oil as the substance or potential and the flame as the thing or light, ours is to co-labor with Christ in bringing that light to a lost world fishing for men.

Once while at a house church service, the Lord spoke to me about prophecy-
He gave me both an illustration and a commentary;
The context was utilizing prophecy to reach the lost, He illustrated this by seeing myself out in the woods with a lamp attempting to attract moths,... He said that’s what I had been doing asking if it was profitable... He then told me to go back to the house and simply turn on the porch light and they would find me.

we could spend a month of Sunday’s parsing out the nuances of this but (for me) the plain instruction was to rest in faith, trusting Him-
In this case the substance is prophecy and the thing is the light it brings to the hearer .


_________________
Fletcher

 2022/4/7 14:14Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re: jFW

You wrote:

"In this case the substance is prophecy and the thing is the light it brings to the hearer . "

Yes, yes.. the predestined work of Christ to gather all whom the Father has given Him. I believe the following verses speaks to the transforming work that is made evident in those who continue gatheingr the oil...

1Jo 2:12

I write to you, little children,
Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.

1Jo 2:13

I write to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
Because you have overcome the wicked one.
I write to you, little children,
Because you have known the Father.

1Jo 2:14

I have written to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men,
Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
And you have overcome the wicked one.


I believe the "substance" of the "things", the underlying purposed interactions of the Holy Spirit with each individual, is meant to transform us into the image of Christ. This is the most prevalent and central prophesy given to us in Scripture.

In your personal experience of the "things", what has the "substance" caused in what you hope for?


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2022/4/8 9:05Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1710
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: rookie

“I believe the "substance" of the "things", the underlying purposed interactions of the Holy Spirit with each individual, is meant to transform us into the image of Christ. This is the most prevalent and central prophesy given to us in Scripture.”

Yes 🙏🏻

The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.




/ In your personal experience of the "things", what has the "substance" caused in what you hope for? /

Life,... the birth or subsequent nurturing or development of eternal life in Christ.
wether planting, watering, pruning, or harvesting,.. the work must be done with Him, tho the temptation to do it for Him remains a snare.

Recently, after noticing a deficit in my two youngest son appetite for the things of the Lord, I prayed and it never left the room... (realizing I was out of fellowship in their lives) , l prayed for mercy for my sons, that my negligence wouldn’t relieve them of the opportunity to see and know Him. I also confessed that I didn’t rightly know what to pray to bring remedy, asking Him to direct my prayers that they might be profitable to this end -
He answered me, telling me to pray that I wouldn’t miss the opportunities that He had already placed before me. So that was my prayer and within two days my boys (without any mention from me) dug out their old bible from a box in their closet and placed it on the table between their beds so that when I tucked them in, I saw it and asked if they’d like me to read a story to them and their excitement over the prospect was surprising. This has become part of our daily routine and because this version is below their reading level it provides ample opportunities for me to fill in the gaps and actually minister to them the word 🙏🏻

So would this be (for you) an evidence of the substance of things hoped for?





_________________
Fletcher

 2022/4/8 22:57Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 2023
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Hebrews 11
King James Version
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

I am just interested in how this relates to the idea of self deception


_________________
Dominic Shiells

 2022/4/9 3:00Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re: JFW

"So would this be (for you) an evidence of the substance of things hoped for?"

Mat 11:28
“Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Mat 11:29
“Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

Mat 11:30
“For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

Yes (for me) this is an example of evidence of things not seen. As one learns to enter into His rest, as the above promise given to us by Scripture, one then is released from the bondage of the law.

Paul cautions us in this:


Gal 5:1

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,[fn] and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.


Would you then say that the "substance" brings us to realize the following Scripture more fully each and every day that we seek to enter into His rest?

1Jo 4:19
We love Him[fn] because He first loved us.


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2022/4/9 10:40Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re: deltadom

JFW and I are working out what it means to 'receive the love of the truth"

Isa 28:10
For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little.”

This is an exercise based on the Scriptural truth stated above.


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2022/4/9 10:42Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re: JFW

You testified:
Recently, after noticing a deficit in my two youngest son appetite for the things of the Lord, I prayed and it never left the room... (realizing I was out of fellowship in their lives) , l prayed for mercy for my sons, that my negligence wouldn’t relieve them of the opportunity to see and know Him. I also confessed that I didn’t rightly know what to pray to bring remedy, asking Him to direct my prayers that they might be profitable to this end -
He answered me, telling me to pray that I wouldn’t miss the opportunities that He had already placed before me. So that was my prayer and within two days my boys (without any mention from me) dug out their old bible from a box in their closet and placed it on the table between their beds so that when I tucked them in, I saw it and asked if they’d like me to read a story to them and their excitement over the prospect was surprising. This has become part of our daily routine and because this version is below their reading level it provides ample opportunities for me to fill in the gaps and actually minister to them the word 🙏🏻


Sorry, I got ahead of the discussion and failed to describe what was understood in mind but not developed in writing. So this is what I thought prior to my last post.

Based on your testimony above, how many times do we hope for the "things" of God, yet in our own strength we set about an action plan to accomplish what we hope for. We know what is right, but yet not know how to do it. Whether it is for us or for others, we create burdens that are not the way God would do it. Your testimony brought the thought of struggling in the flesh to my mind. Oh what burdens we create. Yet, the struggle often times is used by God as a teaching moment, where God gives increase to the "substance". The "substance" of what is learned is that I must decrease, so Jesus can increase.




_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2022/4/10 9:13Profile





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy