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Discussion Forum : General Topics : What does it mean by that the apostasy shall reveal the antichrist: I am not pre trib

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deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
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Hemel Hempstead

 What does it mean by that the apostasy shall reveal the antichrist: I am not pre trib

2 Thessalonians 2
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, note

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2th.2.3 ] μη [NOT] τις [ANYONE] υμας [YOU] εξαπατηση [SHOULD DECEIVE] κατα [IN] μηδενα [ANY] τροπον [WAY,] οτι [BECAUSE " IT WILL NOT BE "] εαν μη [UNLESS] ελθη [SHALL HAVE COME] η [THE] αποστασια [APOSTASY] πρωτον [FIRST,] και [AND] αποκαλυφθη [SHALL HAVE BEEN REVEALED] ο [THE] ανθρωπος της [MAN] αμαρτιας [OF SIN,] ο [THE] υιος της [SON] απωλειας [OF PERDITION,]

αποστασια occurs 3 times in the OT. jos.22.22 ; 2ch.29.19 ; je.2.19

αποστασια occurs 2 times in the NT. ac.21.21 ; 2th.2.3

I have always wondered what it means by apostasy as the apostasy reveals the antichrist

I have thought practically is it that the apostastate leaders choose the antichrist or is that an apostate nation

Sometimes we have prophecy but how it is acted out is completely different.

It is like following signs but once you reach the destination, you do not need the signs anymore and the destination is alot different than the signs.

ac.21.21 ] κατηχηθησαν δε [AND THEY WERE INFORMED] περι [CONCERNING] σου [THEE,] οτι [THAT] αποστασιαν [APOSTASY] διδασκεις [THOU TEACHEST] απο [FROM] μωσεως [MOSES] τους [THE] κατα [AMONG] τα [THE] εθνη [NATIONS] παντας [ALL] ιουδαιους [JEWS,] λεγων [TELLING] μη [NOT] περιτεμνειν [TO CIRCUMCISE] αυτους [THEM] τα [THE] τεκνα [CHILDREN,] μηδε [NOR] τοις [IN THE] εθεσιν [CUSTOMS] περιπατειν [TO WALK.]

This is another example of the use apostasy in the new testament

I do not believe that the pre trib rapture will produce the antichrist.

The distinction to be made between the righteous and the wicked. The future apostasy in the time of Antichrist, and the end of the world 1. Inasmuch, then, as in this world (aioni) some persons betake themselves to the light, and by faith unite themselves with God, but others shun the light, and separate themselves from God, the Word of God comes preparing a fit habitation for both. For those indeed who are in the light, that they may derive enjoyment from it, and from the good things contained in it; but for those in darkness, that they may partake in its calamities. And on this account He says, that those upon the right hand are called into the kingdom of heaven, but that those on the left He will send into eternal fire for they have deprived themselves of all good.

Early church fathers
And for this reason the apostle says: “Because they received not the love of God, that they might be saved, therefore God shall also send them the operation of error, that they may believe a lie, that they all may be judged who have not believed the truth, but consented to unrighteousness.” For when he (Antichrist) is come, and of his own accord concentrates in his own person the apostasy, and accomplishes whatever he shall do according to his own will and choice, sitting also in the temple of God, so that his dupes may adore him as the Christ; wherefore also shall he deservedly “be cast into the lake of fire:” [this will happen according to divine appointment], God by His prescience foreseeing all this, and at the proper time sending such a man, “that they may believe a lie, that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but consented to unrighteousness;” whose coming John has thus described in the Apocalypse: “And the beast which I had seen was like unto a leopard, and his feet as of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion; and the dragon conferred his own power upon him, and his throne, and great might. And one of his heads was as it were slain unto death; and his deadly wound was healed, and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon because he gave power to the beast; and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto this beast, and who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things, and blasphemy and power was given to him during forty and two months. And he opened his mouth for blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. And power was given him over every tribe, and people, and

Even this doesn't tell much from the early church fathers

I have always wondered will the antichrist be elected in the church or will it be a political

The bible is good at describing what happens but not how it happens

As I have covid at the moment I need prayer and I am a mess and need jesus

As there are definitive signs of the antichrist that we know he will build the third temple and it is not figeritive and we will only know that the antichrist is the antichrist by sitting in the third temple

There are the wars of the antichrist that are made clear in the book of Daniel that he will try and make a mock millennium kingdom

The counterfeit Christ will look like jesus in every way


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Dominic Shiells

 2022/2/15 20:29Profile
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 Re: What does it mean by that the apostasy shall reveal the antichrist: I am not pre

Read Matthew Henry’s commentary for a logical but different take on this passage.


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Todd

 2022/2/15 22:01Profile
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Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Maybe you didn't understand the question
I just quoted from the early church fathers on what they thought on this passage

Anyway 😊 , there is the concise Matt Henry commentary and the standard 😊

Dom


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Dominic Shiells

 2022/2/16 9:44Profile
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 Re:

Matthew Henry answers your question. The man of sin was the early Popes/papacy. The Roman Empire was that which hindered the rise and power of the papacy.

The apostasy was the general decay and falling away of early Christianity which allowed for the power of the papacy to take hold.


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Todd

 2022/2/16 11:52Profile
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Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

I am not a preterist I do not think that this is an event in history due to verse 8

2 Thess 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. note

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

In verse 8 it talks that jesus destroys the antichrist on his return and that has not happened yet

As there is a sequence in this passage

1. Antichrist is revealed by the apostasy
2. Antichrist sets himself as God in the temple of God
3. Antichrist gets destroyed by jesus Christ

O believe we are in a bad enough apostasy now as Martin Luther was is in his time not as bad

I know formally working at the Christian bookshop


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Dominic Shiells

 2022/2/16 11:59Profile
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 Re: What does it mean by that the apostasy shall reveal the antichrist: I am not pre


Deltadom,

Apostasy means (to me) rebellion, falling away, abandonment.

The NIV uses rebellion for apostasy:
2 Thess 2
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

DLNT: 3 Let no one deceive you in any way, because (italics) it will not be present (/italics) unless the apostasy comes first and the man (italics) of (/italics) lawlessness is revealed — the son of destruction,

[[(italics) means it's not in the original, they added it for clarification, which I think it sounds MORE clear without the italics!!]]

DLNT: 3 Let no one deceive you in any way, because ... unless the apostasy comes first and the man ... lawlessness is revealed — the son of destruction,

CEB: 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way. That day won’t come unless the rebellion comes first and the person who is lawless is revealed, who is headed for destruction.

Evangelical Heritage: 3 Let no one deceive you in any way, because that day will not come until the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed—the son of destruction.

-------
I think the Word of God is very clear on this if we allow the word to speak for itself, it definitely speaks that the apostasy/ the rebellion/ the falling away will come FIRST before the man of sin (the anti-christ) and I take God at His word.

Quote:
I have always wondered will the antichrist be elected in the church or will it be a political

The bible is good at describing what happens but not how it happens



My personal & humble opinion is that I believe the anti-christ will not come from the Catholic Roman church. He will come from one of the many Arab nations surrounding Israel (whether he be Islamic or not, I do not know).

I love to watch Joel Richardson and one thing I like about him is that he states that the end-times is Jerusalem and Israel centric/centered, not European centered. (All his books are on PDF and available on his website for free at joelstrumpet.com)

I wasn't trying to teach you, I was trying to explain what I got out of your post and that I enjoyed it.

God bless,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2022/2/16 15:34Profile
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Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

I am just interested in how it work out in real life


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Dominic Shiells

 2022/2/18 15:19Profile
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 Re:

Dom if your version is correct, perhaps persecution of the Western church will result in the masses of Christianity defecting to save their own skin.

Antichrist steps in to “save” religion via mass popularity and false signs and wonders. His version will be fawned over by mass media because he will be a flashy photogenic figure with an apparent plan to solve the worlds problems. Prior defectors from true Christianity willingly follow Antichrist.

If you believe any of this at all.


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Todd

 2022/2/18 16:34Profile
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Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

I dont have my own version I am just basing what I was saying on the passage in 2 these 2 .
It is called evidence :)


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Dominic Shiells

 2022/2/19 11:35Profile
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 Re: What does it mean by that the apostasy shall reveal the antichrist: I am not pre


Dom,

This is my testimony, it may help how it applied to me.

I was saved and filled with the Spirit for 20 years. And I backslid for about 4-5 years and after I came back to the Lord, I was praying and told Him, "I would have never dreamed I would've backslid and left You, I don't know what happened please forgive me."

And the Holy Spirit led me to 2 Thess 2; showing me that even though I was "saved" there was still a man of sin in my life that needed to be revealed and it wasn't going to happen until there came a falling away in my life.

Now, does this apply to everyone? I don't think so but I can tell you that the Lisa that God brought out of a backslidden state is not the same Lisa that lived the first 20 years. I was converted in 2004 and I have never been the same.

Take it or leave it but this is my testimony!
God bless you,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2022/2/28 17:08Profile





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