Poster | Thread | TMK Member
Joined: 2012/2/8 Posts: 6650 NC, USA
| The Whoopi Goldberg debacle- Are Jews a Race? | | https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/deep-shtetl/61f992de9277230021ae11f7/are-jews-a-race-whoopi-goldberg-holocaust/
Are Jews a Race? Whoopi Goldberg’s Holocaust comments reflect how Jews don’t fit into Western boxes
By Yair Rosenberg FEBRUARY 01, 2022
This is an edition of Yair Rosenberg’s newsletter, Deep Shtetl. Sign up here.
Yesterday, celebrated actor and TV host Whoopi Goldberg caused a minor meltdown on ABC’s The View when she asserted that the Holocaust “isn’t about race.” Later that day, she joined The Late Show With Stephen Colbert and expanded on these remarks in an uncomfortable exchange, insisting that “the Nazis were white people, and most of the people they were attacking were white people.”
As countless commentators pointed out, this line of thinking is profoundly mistaken. The Nazis were obsessed with race and defined the Jews as their racial inferiors, which is how they justified exterminating them. This is why the Nazis targeted anyone with a Jewish grandparent, regardless of whether the person identified as Jewish or not. Nazism was a blood-based doctrine of racial supremacy, and its consequence was the genocide of the Jews. The very term anti-Semitism, which casts Jews in racial terms, was popularized by a German anti-Jewish activist who wanted to give his hatred a scientific sheen. Race is a social construct, and this is how it was constructed in Nazi Germany and much of Europe.
To her credit, Goldberg apologized last night on Twitter, and then again this morning on The View, alongside Jonathan Greenblatt from the Anti-Defamation League, who talked through the issue with the panelists.
How Do You Define Jews?
Goldberg is not an anti-Semite, but she was confused—and understandably so. In my experience, mistakes like hers often happen because well-meaning people have trouble fitting Jews into their usual boxes. They don’t know how to define Jews, and so they resort to their own frames of reference, like “race” or “religion,” and project them onto the Jewish experience. But Jewish identity doesn’t conform to Western categories, despite centuries of attempts by society to shoehorn it in. This makes sense, because Judaism predates Western categories. It’s not quite a religion, because one can be Jewish regardless of observance or specific belief. (Einstein, for example, was proudly Jewish but not religiously observant.) But it’s also not quite a race, because people can convert in! It’s not merely a culture or an ethnicity, because that leaves out all the religious components. And it’s not simply a nationality, because although Jews do have a homeland and many identify as part of a nation, others do not.
Instead, Judaism is an amalgam of all these things—more like a family (into which one can be adopted) than a sectarian Western faith tradition—and so there’s no great way to classify it in English. A lot of confusion results from attempts to reduce this complexity to something more palatable for contemporary conceptions.
This is just my off-the-cuff explanation. One could write a book about this topic—scholars have—and still not exhaust its nuances. Over the years, smart people have used terms like “civilization” or “peoplehood” or “tribe” to describe the Jewish collective, but because those words are not as straightforward to the average person, I prefer “family.” Whichever label one employs, I hope that the above explanation provides a starting point for those trying to understand the nature of Jewish identity, and helps them avoid the trap of imposing outside ideas on it.
Goldberg was right to apologize, and probably wishes she hadn’t raised this subject. But I’m glad her misstep has provided a public opportunity to address it. We need to have more conversations about these topics going forward, not fewer. Conversation dispels confusion and leads to greater understanding, and given recent events, we need a lot more understanding about Jews in our public discourse.
_________________ Todd
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| 2022/2/1 16:30 | Profile | drifter Member
Joined: 2005/6/6 Posts: 1025 Campbell River, B.C.
| Re: The Whoopi Goldberg debacle- Are Jews a Race? | | The Jews are a distinct ethnic group, while Judaism is an organized religious system. One may be the former, the latter or both.
On a related note, does anyone have reliable data on how many ethnic Jews are in the world? When I search for an answer on Google it says there are 15.2 million Jews in the world, but that number always stays the same when I search for how many people practice Judaism. It is quite obvious that not every person that has Jewish ancestry practices Judaism. The number just seems low to me; God promised Abraham his offspring would be "as the sand of the sea", yet there are 436 million Arabs (not every Arab is Muslim) as opposed to 15.2 million Jews. I am aware of the Diaspora and the fact that many more people may have some Jewish ancestry than people realize.
In regards to Whoopi (her real name is Caryn Johnson, by the way); I don't hate her, but she is a shameless race grifter who is causing division and hatred. _________________ Nigel Holland
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| 2022/2/3 15:49 | Profile | docs Member
Joined: 2006/9/16 Posts: 2753
| Re: | | It makes me think of the church's past error and maybe even today in some places that if a Jew becomes a Christian, they are no longer Jewish! _________________ David Winter
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| 2022/2/3 16:55 | Profile | TMK Member
Joined: 2012/2/8 Posts: 6650 NC, USA
| Re: | | That’s always what I’ve wondered is why I posted the article- when prophetic types talk about promises for the “Jewish people” what are they talking about? Does ethnic group = race? I am not sure about that. I do not believe that it is.
Like I said in a previous post on another thread my dad’s DNA test came back at 1% eastern Jew.
There are countless persons who have some small % of Jewish blood. Perhaps that’s where the sands of the seashore come in - but I don’t think the people who talk about promises for the Jewish people are talking about 1 or half percenters like me and my dad. The problem is, I have no idea who they are talking about. No one has ever answered this question. Perhaps because it is not answerable. _________________ Todd
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| 2022/2/3 17:00 | Profile | drifter Member
Joined: 2005/6/6 Posts: 1025 Campbell River, B.C.
| Re: | | I don't know what percentage of a person's ancestry has to be to make them Jewish. I don't think 1% cuts it though (sorry Todd).
Maybe this is why the Jews were so precise in keeping genealogical records. We also see many instances in scripture of non Jews being integrated into Israel; if they married a Jew their offspring would be considered fully Jewish.
I think it's pretty clear, though, that there are physical descendants of Abraham even today. _________________ Nigel Holland
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| 2022/2/3 17:50 | Profile | drifter Member
Joined: 2005/6/6 Posts: 1025 Campbell River, B.C.
| Re: | | Agreed David. Replacement theology is very erroneous. I thank God there are many Messianic Jews today. _________________ Nigel Holland
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| 2022/2/3 17:52 | Profile | BranchinVINE Member
Joined: 2016/6/15 Posts: 1268 Australia
| Re: | | Hi Todd,
Paul would tell you to totally disregard the one percent and half percent.
After all, he was 100% Jewish with much to boast (Phil. 3:4-6) but when he became a Christian he considered these things which were once valuable to him as worthless. “Yes,” he said, “everything else is worthless when compared with the infinite value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have discarded everything else, counting it all as garbage, so that I could gain Christ” (Phil. 3:7-8).
When Paul said that “if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new” (2 Cor. 5:17), I would think that even your half percent has passed away.
Because there is no room in the new creation for anything else but Christ alone.
Col. 3:10-11 – and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.
Quote:
Christ is all and in all.
Ps. 115:1 – Not to us, O LORD, not to us, But to Your name give glory Because of Your lovingkindness, because of Your truth.
Blessings
_________________ Jade
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| 2022/2/3 21:02 | Profile | BranchinVINE Member
Joined: 2016/6/15 Posts: 1268 Australia
| Re: | |
Quote:
Maybe this is why the Jews were so precise in keeping genealogical records.
Interesting thought.
Do the old genealogical records still exist?
_________________ Jade
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| 2022/2/3 21:04 | Profile | BranchinVINE Member
Joined: 2016/6/15 Posts: 1268 Australia
| Re: | | THE SANDS OF THE SEASHORE
Gal. 3:16 – Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
Gal. 3:29 – And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Rev. 7:9 – After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;
_________________ Jade
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| 2022/2/3 21:45 | Profile | docs Member
Joined: 2006/9/16 Posts: 2753
| Re: | | BranchinVINE,
After his conversion and also being the writer of Colossians 3:10-11, why do you think Paul continued to introduce himself as a Jew in Acts 21:39 and 22:3? _________________ David Winter
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| 2022/2/3 22:03 | Profile |
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