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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Omicron Variant is Mother Nature’s COVID-19 Immunity Booster

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ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi staff,

Quote:

You are basically saying what big pharma are saying that unless they do the studies or approve the studies they are wrong.


No, I am not. I am not beholden to "big pharma." To be quite clear, I question EVERYTHING. I don't believe ANYONE, ANY POLITICIAN, ANY PUNDIT, ANY ORGANIZATION or ANY GOVERNMENT.

I even question the CONCLUSIONS of medical researchers -- which is exactly what peer-review is about. Medical research is about observation and the collection of data in that observation. The researcher will offer a conclusion (usually found in the abstract and more clearly in their stated conclusion at the end of their published research).

However, peer-review is where others examine that research data, methodology and conclusions and scrutinize it. In fact, "Big Pharma" is made up of a lot of "little" individuals who research. They don't make corporate business decisions. They don't lobby the government. They are simply the scientists and medical researchers who conduct research and search for medical solutions. They are employed by the companies that hire them for this purpose.

When I read medical research (available for all to read and examine through the individual journals or databases like PubMed), I do not "believe" what I read. I simply examine the data gathered and the methods used for the research. I read the conclusions and consider how they might be wrong. If the research is replicated (or improved upon) by others, then this lends credibility to the initial findings.

That's basically how medical research works. I think that it is a good approach to all research and claims -- whether from medicine, pharmacy, science or elsewhere in life. We should always TEST EVERYTHING and only HOLD ON TO THAT WHICH IS GOOD (I Thessalonians 5:21).

Quote:

If you being a believer are saying the stuff that you are which is complete "legalize" to confirm a position which in my opinion is spiritually blind, no wonder non Christians havent got a chance in knowing the truth if you being a Christian actually believe the stuff you are saying.



I'm not sure what you're saying here. I don't go about "preaching" about medicine or vaccines. I am sharing here (a rarity for this). When I go to non-Christians, I don't bring them notions about medicine or vaccines. Rather, I present Christ to them.

Quote:

The reason you studied the vaccines is not to understand them but to back up a totally inaccurate postion.



This accusation isn't true. To be very clear: In this case, studied vaccines because I wanted to know as much as I could about them BEFORE I would even consider them for myself or my family.

I am a person that many friends and family members turn to for opinions over different matters. When it comes to things like this, I was deeply concerned (prayerfully so) about the danger of giving a bad response. I was fully aware that I didn't want to lead someone down a wrong path over this.

Sure enough, my phone began ringing over questions about the vaccine. At first, my initial responses were quite frank: "I don't know. I am still studying this."

I had no tendency toward confirmation bias because I didn't trust anything from the get-go. I was fully prepared to reject any of the vaccines or various treatments that some people were proclaiming or peddling. So, your accusation that I studied this to "back up a totally inaccurate position" is, well, simply untrue. I hope that this clears it up for you.

Quote:

You are saying basically that although we have censorship its ok dont worry peer review studies will come through in the end and the CDC are really honest and no one can have an a correct opinion unless it passes the censorship police.



No, that is not what I am "basically" saying. I am saying that social media censorship is WRONG. In fact, I hope that some private citizens will sue the various social media companies for libel over their "fact checking" that is wrong. I believe that those social media outlets are agenda-driven in many instances.

I also did not "basically" say that "the CDC are really honest." In fact, I didn't mention the CDC at all. I did bring up the FDA and their response over Ivermectin treatment for COVID-19. However, I didn't even offer my own conclusion of whether or not I agree with them.

I simply offered the link to the FDA webpage on Ivermectin treatment for COVID-19 in order to clarify what it is that they are saying. This is so that we have an actual basis for determining potential reasons for why they are saying it. There are people alleging conspiracies in all of this. Therefore, we need to know the basis for those conspiracies. If someone brings up claims about a conspiracy regarding the suppression of Ivermectin as a treatment, then it's at least honest to examine what the FDA has actually said about it.

Quote:

You delibrately ignored my points which is unfortunate and you delibrately ignored the original post.
1 I wont take the vaccine but you can
2 I agree with vaccines but just not this one.



Just because I didn't address something you wrote (or even the original post), it doesn't mean that I "deliberately ignored" what was posted.

Rather, in my first post to this discussion, I simply provided a link for AbideinHim over a question that he asked (i.e., "Why is the government not doing a study on natural immunity?"). The link that I provided (from PubMed) lists a total of 2,423 research studies on natural immunity and COVID-19. You responded to that post (directed to AbideinHim) and this began our own discourse.

Quote:

What the original post is saying is correct Omnicron is a good thing and any semi informed person will understand the reasoning.The weaker version is taking over the stronger versions and is wiping it out.



Actually, the original post (again by AbideinHim) simply links to an article at AMERICA OUT LOUD. That article by Dr. Peter McCullough (a cardiologist) is interesting. Dr. McCullough's conclusion is certainly worth pursuing -- as he quotes two recent peer-review submissions on the Omicron variant of COVID-19.

One study from the University of Hong Kong is entitled "HKUMed finds Omicron SARS-CoV-2 can infect faster and better than Delta in human bronchus but with less severe infection in lung." The other study, funded by the Chan-Zuckerberg Initiative (an initiative created by the founder and CEO of Facebook), is entitled "Increased risk of SARS-CoV-2 reinfection associated with emergence of the Omicron variant in South Africa."

I read these studies (one is still pre-publication). I find them fascinating. However, I do not find a conclusion in them that Omicron is "taking over the stronger versions and is wiping it out." Rather, they are pointing out that the Omicron variant is more rapidly infectious but seems to show that this particular variant is also less severe on the human pulmonary system. I think that this can be a good sign (if other research replicates these findings).

Quote:

Their is no doubt in my mind and in my Spirit that the devil is behind both the pandemic and the vaccine.I dont need to study how evil the world is to know how evil the world is.


I agree that we don't need to study how evil the world is in order to know how evil the world is. I also agree that COVID-19 is a terrible pandemic that has affected and hurt many people (and contributed to the deaths of many). However, I cannot agree with what you've written about the different vaccines.

In fact, I am troubled with the words "no doubt in my mind." This degree of (personal) certainty is an issue that I think that we all experience. The key for me is that I think that we should be able to understand that "I don't know" is an acceptable position. We don't always have to stake a position on issues for which we haven't thoroughly researched.

Over the years at SermonIndex, there have been people who have come and gone who staked this "no doubt" position on all manners of doctrinal issues -- many of which aren't considered to be essential in the Scriptures. One believer has "no doubt" about an opinion while the other has "no doubt" about an opposite opinion. This inevitably led to many conflicts -- to the point that threads were shut down by our moderators.

This is why I believe that it is important to know the limits of our "own understanding" of matters. As brilliant as a person might be, they don't know everything. This is true of medicine. It is true of science. It is also true of what some deem to be "truth" from Scriptures -- when so many believers may have differing opinions.

Sometimes, it is considered "riding the fence." However, I disagree. Sometimes, I am on neither side of a fence -- let alone standing or sitting on it. Sometimes, we simply don't know with enough certainty to reach a conclusion. If anything, it is honest and pure to be this way -- even if by sharing it, it does invite criticism or finger-pointing.

In the biographical sketch included in The Banner of Truth's publication of A CHRISTIAN IN COMPLETE ARMOUR (pressed by David Wilkerson's ministry), we find the following written about author William Gurnall:
Quote:

"Herein lies the reason so little has been written about William Gurnall in the annals of church history. Though he was undoubtedly puritan in both doctrine and practice, he did not secede with the group with which he had generally agreed -- a choice not likely to make him a favorite with either of the two great religious parties into which England was divided.

A neutral is never popular; each party is offended at him for not casting his weight into their scale. He [Gurnall] was just the man to be disliked and slighted by both sides."


There are all manners of doctrinal "truths" that are not generally regarded as "truths" by all believers. Many of these doctrinal divisions lead to sectarianism or denominationalism. It is almost always well-meaning too. The danger, of course, is when believers begin to approach these ideals with an "us versus them" or even "us versus the world" mentality.

Sadly, I've felt reproach from some if I don't take a position on something that someone else feels like I need to take a position.

For instance, I still cannot say with "no doubt" a position on eschatology (i.e., pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib rapture). Some churches require adherence to a particularly "we believe" school of thought for active or inclusive membership. I've read the Scriptures intently for this but have still never achieved a finite position on the matter.

So, my "position" (as it were) is to simply "watch" and "be ready" by persevering in Christ until the end. I don't believe that my faith teeters in the balance unless I take a position. I might lean strongly one way, but I am not "without doubt" to proclaim it as a truth. As such, I simply want to continue walking with Christ. However, like what was written about William Gurnall, I find that this neutrality isn't welcomed by some.

Please believe me when I say that I am neutral when it comes to COVID-19 and vaccines. I do believe that history and the collected data/evidence tends to show that vaccines work in general. This vaccine was particularly concerning given its nature (mRNA) and whether it would be safe or even effective. So, I studied all-the-more intently over it.

I have some strong opinions about the origin of COVID-19 and whether those responsible should be held financially and economically culpable in some sort of tangible way. I also agree that there is a "battle for control" when it comes to a national, state, local or even corporate response to COVID-19 and the vaccines. I strongly oppose any control by government, industry or even business.

Quote:

You are supporting those who are spreading disinformation on Ivermectin,who have consistantly been untruthful and who are involved in a censorship campaign.Bridle your own tongue first and be honest and fair about the consequences of the disinformation by the CDC and the government censorship,



No, I am not supporting "those who are spreading disinformation on Ivermectin." I am not supporting those "who have consistently been untruthful." I am certainly not supporting those who "are involved in a censorship campaign." If we want to talk about the need to be "honest and fair," then let's be clear that these things that you accused me of are NOT TRUE.

- I don't embrace disinformation.
- I don't support things that aren't truthful.
- I don't support censorship by social media -- or how it is weaponized for the purposes of agenda.


_________________
Christopher

 2022/1/3 15:38Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Chris-

You are very gracious in providing such a long response, especially with comments like this directed to you:

//As a brother in Christ, if you can’t see what’s happening by now, it’s entirely possible you’ve been sealed over for judgement 🤷🏽‍♂️
How can anyone who is born again, with the mind of Christ, not see that this “virus” and these “shots” have from the beginning, been part of an evil scheme???
I do not believe it is possible and those whom have succumbed to this deception are in a very precarious situation that, like Esau, may not find a place of repentance tho’ they may seek it carefully and with many tears...//

They’ve been directed to me as well.

If the devil is behind the pandemic, his purpose is to divide the church. He wins again!


_________________
Todd

 2022/1/3 18:22Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi Chriss
I think the majority of SI knows what peer review is and they also know information about the pandemic is being buried,belittled and censored.It doesnt matter what a peer says if what he is saying is being censored or if the results of studies that doesnt suit the narrative are being put on page 40 on a google search.
If people want to tell it straight they would mention censorship and the dishonesty in the government over vaccines and vaccine mandates as well as linking to FDA and CDC.
The vaccines did not work as billed because the makers of the vaccines told lies.
They told lies about Ivermectin and they told lies about Vitamin D.
They told lies about masks.
They told lies about the origins of the virus.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck,its a duck.

If people want to use this particular vaccine go ahead,nobody is stopping you but the truth behind the pandemic,the mandates and the vaccines has to be told too.
This is a vaccine programme unlike any programme ever seen before and the forcing of vaccines is supported mostly by left wing politicians.The same people who support Abortion,gender equality,gay rights and the destruction of the Church.They score minus one on the trustworthy scale.

If you link to a page that is clearly disinformation then is it not supporting disinformation?
urs staff


 2022/1/3 18:49Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 2227


 Re:

Hi TMK,
This post wasnt about vaccines,it was about the Ominicron variant.
Their was no need for a discussion about vaccines except perhaps on taking a booster versus getting omnicron.Which is better?
The Omnicron variant looks at this stage to be a great thing and could wipe out the serious effects of the pandemic and should be celebrated,
urs staff



 2022/1/3 19:01Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

We will all get Omicron, vaccinated or not. My son has it (vaccinated) but has no symptoms.

I am in agreement that Omicron is a good thing for the ones it doesn’t kill. They say if you see vaccinated and get it you will be super immune.


_________________
Todd

 2022/1/3 20:24Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 2009
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: Chris

Brother I love you and have no ill will towards you in any fashion, my intention is to be more matter of fact than anything else, tho you are at liberty to take it as you will, I’m not responsible for what or how you hear what I say-

Having said this, the whole 2nd pg of this thread is (for some reason I don’t understand) is so large in size and scale that it makes quite a chore to read. This is not the case on any other part of SI or even this thread,... just the 2nd pg 🤷🏽‍♂️
I’ve tried all day to resolve with everything I could imagine, even rebooting my (admittedly old) phone in an attempt to reconcile tho as yet nothing has provided remedy, perhaps someone could help 🙏🏻

In any case, I stand 💯 by every word - nothing personal with you, I’m just being honest-

Regarding the issue of dividing over things like this, I believe it is completely necessary after appealing to no avail.
The gender dysphoria issue is (for me) the same and is nonnegotiable💯
That is not to say that a person who suffers from this particular deception or any other variant, should be treated different or inhumanly, rather they should be shown the love of Christ in word and deed so far as they are willing. However those people who are not suffering from gender dysphoria and yet appease it by not only themselves pretending that a person who identifies as something differing from their biological reality is not suffering from mental illness, but they seek to normalize it (mental illness) and require that others also pretend that it is normative or else face retribution.

Now, what I am saying is that it is not possible for a born again child of God to go along with this charade much less defend it or even worse, promote it. There is no scenario where Jesus is going to run interference for much less promote and require others to comply or face penalty for not going along with this charade. In fact everything written regarding His ministry would require, like Paul’s writings, us to expose the darkness that seeks to enslave. Again (for me) this “pandemic” as you cal it, is as clear and bears lil difference from the gender dysphoria deception. Hence questioning cognitive ability and/or wether a person is truly born again🤷🏽‍♂️
Perhaps they are a good and godly man, faithful in what he knows ... a religious man , a Nicodemus- and yet they cannot see the kingdom.
But I will not deny what is clearly seen, and from the beginning my position has been settled.

Chris, I have no quarrel with you or Todd or anyone else for that matter however I will oppose what is clearly deception and will do all that the grace of God allows to expose it in every instance it is encountered.
So to be clear, this not an attempt to convict nor convert, that’s Holy Spirits job and He’s really good at being God and doesn’t need my help, but He does command me to reprove and rebuke without hesitation and with full faith 🙏🏻

It was apparent, by what I managed to glean, you are occupied with “facts” and yet my occupation is faith and in all honesty,- all the facts in the world won’t get you to where you wanna go, but just a mustard seed of faith will take you straightway 😇


_________________
Fletcher

 2022/1/3 21:55Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 5185
Louisiana

 Re:

Many People are having adverse effects from the boosters and vaccines, but why isn’t the CDC and News media reporting this? Probably for the same reason that they are not talking about the studies on natural immunity being more effective than vaccines.


_________________
Mike

 2022/1/4 8:55Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 1268
Australia

 Re:



This is God’s criterion for the reprobate and for the faith that fails the test:

2 Cor. 13:5

KJV –
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

NASB 1977 –
Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?


_________________
Jade

 2022/1/4 10:02Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi staff,

I didn't mean to come across as condescending when it came to a short explanation of peer-review (and the process). However, you'd be surprised by how many people aren't aware of what peer-review is -- or why it is important.

Moreover, a full understanding of peer-review often serves to diminish some of the conspiracy theories about research in general. When people come to realize that medical research is largely independent of government, academia and even corporations. Otherwise, it is funded primarily by one research group within competing sectors (or sub-sectors).

The good news is that, while social media and even "news" outlets might suppress some information, the actual research itself is available through the journals themselves (online or in-print), academic search engines or places like PubMed.

Obviously, the content can be a bit cerebral and even confusing for people who are unaccustomed to medical jargon and terminology. It can also be confusing for those who have difficulty with math or reading the language(s) in which the research is published. Still, the research is, indeed, available for all -- to browse and even scrutinize.

In fact, I wouldn't use "regular" Google to find this type of research. If someone isn't able or willing to search through databases like PubMed or Ovid, they can use Google Scholar. It's located at https://scholar.google.com/.

A simple search for "Covid" and "Ivermectin" offered 8,540 results:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=covid+ivermectin&btnG=&oq=covid+

Quote:

If people want to tell it straight they would mention censorship and the dishonesty in the government over vaccines and vaccine mandates as well as linking to FDA and CDC.



I have no problem with people who "tell it straight." However, if an accusation or claim is made, then the burden is on that person to substantiate it. This would require first-hand proof (and not hearsay from people who simply or spread the claims). For instance...

Quote:

The vaccines did not work as billed because the makers of the vaccines told lies.


Do you have a direct citation where the vaccine makers (e.g., Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, etc.) actually told specific lies about their vaccines?

Quote:

They told lies about Ivermectin and they told lies about Vitamin D.


Who told the lies? What (specifically) did they say about Ivermectin and/or Vitamin D?

Quote:

They told lies about masks.


Again, who told these lies and what exactly did they say?

Quote:

They told lies about the origins of the virus.


Who are "they?" If you mean "politicians," then which ones specifically?

Quote:

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck,its a duck.



This can be true. However, it means that the "sight" of the person who is observing what they think to be a "duck" is correct. If their "sight" is faulty (or accompanied by the fog of "suspicion" or intrinsic biases), then such proclamations based upon that observation might not be accurate.

Quote:

If people want to use this particular vaccine go ahead,nobody is stopping you but the truth behind the pandemic,the mandates and the vaccines has to be told too.



I have no problem with the "truth" being told. In fact, I eagerly seek it. However, we must be led of the Lord so that we can rightly divide truth from anything else (including well-meaning yet not-entirely-accurate assumptions).

Quote:

This is a vaccine programme unlike any programme ever seen before and the forcing of vaccines is supported mostly by left wing politicians.The same people who support Abortion,gender equality,gay rights and the destruction of the Church.They score minus one on the trustworthy scale.



I agree that this entire ordeal has been different. For one, it is a pandemic that has undoubtedly been politicized (often by all sides of the political spectrum). On the other hand, it is the first worldwide pandemic of this impact since the Spanish Flu influenza pandemic during the First World War. However, this is also the first world-wide pandemic in history in which vaccines have been widely available.

It is disingenuous to say that vaccines are primarily supported by left-wing politicians. The push for COVID-19 vaccines began under President Trump through "Operation Warp Speed." Liberal politicians actually said that it would be "impossible" to develop a vaccine in the time frame hoped for by President Trump.

Even the government response to COVID-19 -- from various shutdowns, limits of travel, stimulus checks, etc. -- all began during President Trump's administration (and with the support of both major political parties).

In fact, President Trump attempted to force a travel and work restrictions in the New York area -- which prompted Cuomo, De Blasio and others to complain that it was unconstitutional and that they would fight it in court. Within months, the pandemic hit the New York City metroplex hard (particularly with the nursing homes). Democrats also complained in the first month of the pandemic (just weeks after it was first identified) that the travel moratorium with Asia implemented by President Trump was "racially motivated."

So, it isn't just "left-wing politicians" who support the vaccine or a coordinated government response to the pandemic. Many who oppose abortion, radical feminism, LGBTQ activism and legislation against the church also support the vaccine or a government response to it.

Personally, I believe that hindsight will be (as it usually is) 20/20. Over the next few years, I suspect that economists, public administrators and medical scientists will conclude that there were better ways to deal with the pandemic than what has been done over the last two years. I suspect that they'll conclude that things could have been done to protect those who were most at-risk rather than shutting down society for everyone else who wasn't quite at-risk.


_________________
Christopher

 2022/1/4 21:09Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4779


 Re:

Hi JFW,

First off, I'd point out that the issue with the second page of this discussion thread is skewed due to the link posted by AbideinHim. He posted a link to an article from Ben Shapiro at Daily Wire. However, it was a long link (because it was taken from a Facebook link).

AbideinHim's link can be edited and shortened to this:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/the-big-government-covid-19-lie

This shortened link address (to the same article) will likely fix the issue on the second page of this thread.

Quote:
In any case, I stand 💯 by every word - nothing personal with you, I’m just being honest-



Don't get me wrong: I appreciate honesty. However, someone can obviously be "honestly wrong" -- particularly when it comes to judging other believers. We will all be called into account by our Judge for what we say, write or type. My wife and I were studying 2nd Peter this morning. That last letter of Peter -- written shortly before he departed this world -- reminds of us this. It certainly should give us pause.

Quote:

The gender dysphoria issue is (for me) the same and is nonnegotiable💯
That is not to say that a person who suffers from this particular deception or any other variant, should be treated different or inhumanly, rather they should be shown the love of Christ in word and deed so far as they are willing. However those people who are not suffering from gender dysphoria and yet appease it by not only themselves pretending that a person who identifies as something differing from their biological reality is not suffering from mental illness, but they seek to normalize it (mental illness) and require that others also pretend that it is normative or else face retribution.

Now, what I am saying is that it is not possible for a born again child of God to go along with this charade much less defend it or even worse, promote it. There is no scenario where Jesus is going to run interference for much less promote and require others to comply or face penalty for not going along with this charade. In fact everything written regarding His ministry would require, like Paul’s writings, us to expose the darkness that seeks to enslave. Again (for me) this “pandemic” as you cal it, is as clear and bears lil difference from the gender dysphoria deception.



As you point out, I think that this is certainly an interesting comparison-contrast between the COVID-19 pandemic and the latest media hysteria over "gender dysphoria."

It is interesting in that the research behind "gender dysphoria" is not the basis of the radical pushes by LGBTQ zealots in politics and the media. In fact, "gender dysphoria" is still viewed as a mental disorder by most actual medical researchers (at least those who are not guided by preexisting biases).

Yet, the issue today in gender dysphoria is not medical but political. It is pushed by the media and politicians through hysterics -- using the notion that "transgender" individuals are "victims" of a society that only sees the two genders that people are born with.

Recently, I was engaged in a debate with a non-believer about gender pronouns. This man was worked up into a frenzy because I referred to him as a "he/him" without first asking him about his "preferred pronouns." I told him that I based it upon his very apparent biology. I then asked him if he considered himself to be a "male." He said, "Yes, I think so."

I then told this man that there didn't seem to be a problem in the sense that I got it right (according to his persuasion) anyway. He said that it was still a problem because I was basing pronouns upon "assumptions."

I told him, "No. I am basing it upon accepted customs, norms and, yes, SCIENCE for thousands of years." I then explained that I understood that some people are abnormal (of which he took offense until I told him that "abnormal" means "away from the norm"). However, I pointed out that society as a whole cannot be dictated by those who are abnormal within it.

I pointed out that some people are born with six fingers on each hand (it is a rare birth defect). Yet, it is still perfectly acceptable to say that "human beings have ten fingers." This is because the broad statement is made with the broad understanding that it refers to the "norm" of human beings.

So, in essence, the crazed hysterics of transgender activism is largely devoid of science. For reference, you can consider what noted experts in the field of clinical psychology and neurosciences (like Dr. Jordan Peterson) have to say on the matter.

Yet, the issue with COVID-19 is different in that (at least from my perspective) some people are "picking and choosing" the "medical evidence" that fits their current views.

Instead of refraining from even staking an opinion on things like COVID-19, the vaccines or various treatment options (like Ivermectin) until AFTER they have reviewed and disseminated through actual medical evidence, many are formulating an opinion and then attempting to validate it by means other than firsthand medical research.

By the way, I am not accusing anyone HERE on SermonIndex of this. I simply know people for which this is true.

I'll go so far that there are believers who are being influenced by various teachers and even some doctors (who selectively cite *some* medical research). Others go the opposite direction. They are easily influenced by politicians, media outlets, news personalities, and their own handful of teachers and doctors who also only selectively cite *some* medical research. In my view, they are both flawed.

If we seek to truly be honest, then we must truly be honest with all things. We cannot be so easily persuaded as to develop medical opinions (for that is what some people are actually mistaking their "faith" with a "medical opinion" or vice versa). Otherwise, we can be shortsighted with that sense of "honesty" -- something that can easily make us "honestly wrong."

Quote:

Hence questioning cognitive ability and/or wether a person is truly born again🤷🏽‍♂️
Perhaps they are a good and godly man, faithful in what he knows ... a religious man , a Nicodemus- and yet they cannot see the kingdom.



The key word in all that you typed is "perhaps."

Etymologically, "perhaps" comes from "per" and "hap" (amalgomated in Nuevo Latin and French as "perhappes"). It essentially means "possibly, by chance." My point is that "perhaps" should never be used as a basis to judge someone else. It lacks the certainty by which someone can suggest something that is outside of the "let your yes be yes and no be no" parameters of rhetorical propriety as believers.

I must confess that I've struggled with this myself. I am highly intelligent and very well-educated. So, I've found myself trying to hold my tongue at times when some people (in and out of the Body of Christ) say things that I feel sure to be incorrect.

Just this week, I was engaged in a debate over Twitter with a "pastor" who went off the "deep end" into wild heresy over LGBTQ issues. In our discourse, the man approached our conversation with condescension and openly (and publicly) questioned my intelligence, education and whether I care for the rate of "gay kids who are committing suicide."

I held my tongue (or, in this case, tweets). However, as our discussion progressed, I was able to point out flaws in his views as well as his assumptions about me.

He was boasting in his years of pastoral education. So, I subtly pointed out my own diverse and advanced educational attainment (secular as it might be). He questioned whether I care about people who are suicidal. So, I pointed out that I often drive to the Golden Gate Bridge and very simply share Christ to lonely people walking on that bridge (upon which a large number of people kill themselves each year). Yet, I also pointed out that I can rightly divide truly caring for the lost from either condoning or affirming behavior with caring for the soul.

In the end, this man did change his tone quite a bit. He continued to accuse me of being "ignorant" for my remarks on being able to care deeply for all people (including homosexuals) while still being able to avoid affirming homosexuality. Yet, his tone changed when he suddenly knew his audience (me) and that I wasn't as ignorant as he suspected.

I bring this up only to point out that we should be VERY careful as believers when we use words that openly question their cognitive abilities or whether that believer might be "sealed over for judgment."

Moreover, I pointed this out because you specifically said, "HOW CAN ANYONE WHO IS BORN AGAIN, WITH THE MIND OF CHRIST, not see that this “virus” and these “shots” have from the beginning, been part of an evil scheme?"

The insinuation in this is that those who do not agree with your opinion that the "shots" (i.e., vaccines) are at their root ("from the beginning") a part of a specific "evil scheme" are somehow not "born again."

I think that I have made it very clear that I am not easily persuaded by politicians, individual doctors, pundits, media outlets or "Big Pharm." Yet, it is a dangerous thing to question the salvation of someone because you disagree with their position and/or conclusion (or your perception of their position/conclusion) about the vaccines.

After all, you might very well find yourself having made a harmful public insinuation against a true child of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. We should be a bit slower to speak like this -- and I should be the first to ask the Lord for help in this.

Quote:

It was apparent, by what I managed to glean, you are occupied with “facts” and yet my occupation is faith and in all honesty,- all the facts in the world won’t get you to where you wanna go, but just a mustard seed of faith will take you straightway 😇



I'm not sure what you mean. I am not guided (or occupied) by mere "facts." My faith -- my love for the Lord my God -- is first and paramount in my heart, mind, soul and strength. Yet, this faith also prevents me from walking where I "want to go." It also prevents me from making proclamations about things like vaccines if I am not accurate in what I am saying. Even if we are convinced of something, it is still a "lie" if we proclaim it and it isn't entirely true.

Brother, please don't take this as angry. It isn't. I am convinced that you mean well and are guided out of fervor for the Lord and truth. I just hope that we can be wiser than the children of this world -- especially when they are watching and judging our every word.


_________________
Christopher

 2022/1/4 22:11Profile





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