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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Why the Counterfeit detracts from the Real!

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Platy
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Joined: 2019/10/5
Posts: 156


 Re:

I have a few thoughts for you on the following that you wrote:

"Revelation 13
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. note

and that the image of the beast should both speak.

And he the antichrist gave power to give life to the beast
Note it was not artificial intelligence , it was supernatural not artificial intelligence nor does it say it is a giant statue that is eisegesis"

I'm assuming your saying that the antichrist supernaturally gives life to the image of the beast. My understanding is that only God can create life. It isn't too far off to say its a statue or artificial intelligence but to say that the antichrist has power to breathe life supernaturally into the image of the beast goes against the rest of scripture. See Exodus 8:16-19.

Furthermore Revelation 13:15 is parallel to Daniel 3. There was also a image and whoever did not worship it was thrown into the fire. That was a statue.

 2021/11/15 5:53Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1952
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

The word for life is πνεῦμα pnuma when it says he is given power which means God gives him power.

That's what the scripture says

Revelation 13
14 (W)And he deceives [f]those who dwell on the earth (X)by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword (Y)and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak

In was those that dwelt on the world that made the image as the greek is ikon εἰκὼν it can mean a statue.
https://vocab.perseus.org/lemma/25049/?filter=urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0525.tlg001.perseus-grc2

If you do a greek literature search including things such as the septugient which I haven't put here up here

If you put the word εἰκὼν into a greek Google search engine you get such a varied result.

The antichrist has power to call fire 🔥 down from heaven why does he need artificial intelligence.

Revelation 13
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men

Why should he need artificial intelligence this is an example where a supernatural explaination

My problem is that artificial intelligence is a broad field from a computer standpoint. If I were to use the term neural networks as that is what people refer to as there is many types of neural networks.

To me rubbish like this or saying artificial intelligence is involved in bringing this statue to life

The problem is when we realise the antichrist is going to be fuelled by the devil and his whole hoard of demons.

It literally says he was granted to give pneuma that's what the bible says
καὶ ἐδόθη αὐτῷ δοῦναι πνεῦμα τῇ εἰκόνι τοῦ θηρίου ἵνα καὶ λαλήσῃ ἡ εἰκὼν τοῦ θηρίου καὶ ποιήσῃ ὅσοι ἂν μὴ προσκυνήσωσιν τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ θηρίου ἵνα ἀποκτανθῶσιν

A demon can give a statue life. Why do we flee to a lesser view of what the text says
A demon can make something that is dead appear life

Why is it when we are dealing with prophecy that we think more like atheists rather than those who believe in a supernatural God

This is the problem that I find is there alot less biblical end time prophecies in the scriptures as I have read the bible multiple times

To me the damage that the bible has been used for to read the news rather than waiting for actual fulfillments .

I would rather that there would be less haste when trying to compare the scriptures to biblical events as there has been so many books that have been in error because the book is out of date biblical prophecy. I used to work in the Christian bookshop.

It would be better to be slow to speak
Jas 1:19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:





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Dominic Shiells

 2021/11/15 12:59Profile
Platy
Member



Joined: 2019/10/5
Posts: 156


 Re:

Thanks for your thoughts. I don't believe demons (or any created being) can supernaturally give life (i.e. the resurrection and dust --> lice in Exodus) but other than things like that I have no dogmatic viewpoints when it comes to eschatology.

 2021/11/15 14:55Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1952
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

it is what the bible says :)
It is not a resurrection in the biblical sense but more demonic


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Dominic Shiells

 2021/11/15 15:15Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5966
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 Re:

Platy-

I don’t buy into this literal Rev 13 eschatology at all but assuming I did, is a giant robot “alive?”


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Todd

 2021/11/15 15:26Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1952
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

I do not believe that I believe that a demon will give life to the statue

It would be another question to say that robots can't be alive


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Dominic Shiells

 2021/11/15 16:03Profile
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 Re:

Dom what do you mean by “life?”


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Todd

 2021/11/15 16:05Profile
deltadom
Member



Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 1952
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

Rev 13
15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak

The word power is not in the greek but the word breath is used that is what I mean by the word life!

[ rev.13.15 ] και [AND] εδοθη [IT WAS GIVEN] αυτω [TO IT] δουναι [TO GIVE] πνευμα [BREATH] τη [TO THE] εικονι [IMAGE] του [OF THE] θηριου [BEAST,] ινα [THAT] και [ALSO] λαληση [SHOULD SPEAK] η [THE] εικων [IMAGE] του [OF THE] θηριου [BEAST,] και [AND]

Dickey, Joshua. The Complete Koine-English Reference Bible: New Testament, Septuagint and Strong's Concordance (Kindle Locations 421219-421227). . Kindle Edition.

4151 πνευμα occurs 385 times in the NT.
occurs 279 times in the OT.
from (4154) pneuma 6:332,876 pnyoo'-mah Noun Neuter from (4154) ; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually) , mind. Compare (5590) . the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the \\Holy\\ Spirit) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of \\Truth\\) never referred to as a depersonalised force the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides the soul a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding,

Dickey, Joshua. The Complete Koine-English Reference Bible: New Testament, Septuagint and Strong's Concordance (Kindle Locations 440241-440251). . Kindle Edition.

the word πνευμα is the same word used in

ge.6.3 ] και [AND] ειπεν [SAID] κυριος [THE LORD] ο [THE] θεος [GOD] ου [BECAUSE] μη [IS] καταμεινη [SHOULD STAY] το [THE] πνευμα [SPIRIT] μου [MY] εν [IN] τοις [THE] ανθρωποις [MEN AND] τουτοις [THESE] εις [A] τον [THE] αιωνα [EON –] δια [FOR] το [THE] ειναι [ARE] αυτους [THEM] σαρκας [FLESH] εσονται [SHALL BE] δε [BUT] αι [THE] ημεραι [DAYS] αυτων [THEIR] εκατον [A HUNDRED] εικοσι [TWENTY] ετη [YEARS]

Dickey, Joshua. The Complete Koine-English Reference Bible: New Testament, Septuagint and Strong's Concordance (Kindle Locations 145543-145557). . Kindle Edition.

pneuma is normally translated holy spirit here
ruach רוּחַ
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7307.htm
Wrd: רוח (Fem) Xlit: ru-ahh Trans: WIND Def: A natural movement of air; breath. The breath of man, animal or God. The character. A space in between. Str: 7305, 7307

I have about as much clue about this passage as all I know this is going to be a future event not using artificial intelligence !!!!


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Dominic Shiells

 2021/11/15 16:24Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5966
NC, USA

 Re:

But a prophet explaining something that he sees in the terms he understands might use the word life because that it what it looks like. If he saw a statute begin to move and speak it would appear to be alive. He may not realize that it is a mechanical device.

If you believe any of this at all.


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Todd

 2021/11/15 17:04Profile





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