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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Vaccine question

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Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1936


 Vaccine question

All, I am not someone who is against vaccine for Covid. I also believe everyone who does not have faith to take it should have freedom not to take it. Because anything done without faith is a sin. Now I have 2 brothers who believe in opposite side of the spectrum! Here is the argument posted by a brother who is in for vaccines. I want to know how a Christian who is lacking faith with vaccines can answer this!

It is a known fact that hospitals are filled by covid patients who need care and more than 90% of them are unvaccinated . Now because the hospitals are running full due to these unvaccinated covid patients, those who are having other serious medical conditions are not able to find a bed. I have heard cases where people have to visit 2 to 4 hospitals before getting an admission into ER or Urgent care. Now if my freedom is affecting the life of others around me, how do I face it as a Christian? Do I still say that I do not have faith and be insensitive to those who are struggling?


_________________
Sreeram

 2021/9/14 15:50Profile
Jasmine
Member



Joined: 2005/11/19
Posts: 97


 Re: Vaccine question

Where are you getting the ideal NOT getting vaccinated is a lack of faith? What are you talking about? Where are you getting this from?

 2021/9/14 16:24Profile
Platy
Member



Joined: 2019/10/5
Posts: 145


 Re:

I think he meant lacking faith in the vaccines not lacking faith. I had to read it a couple of times.

My answer is the same I'm going to give to my employers. If you only look at the vaccine and covid-19 then you can make your case for the vaccine. If you look at the bigger picture however then the case is made against the vaccination. The transfer of wealth, the great reset agenda (out of their own mouth), the media lies, the rise of marxism, the attack on capitalism, the attack on nationalism, the movement toward globalism, etc. Its basically looking at this from a boxed view as opposed to a big picture view.

I would be able to back up every single one of those big picture items with links to any one who questions those items.

 2021/9/14 16:32Profile
Platy
Member



Joined: 2019/10/5
Posts: 145


 Re:

"Do I still say that I do not have faith and be insensitive to those who are struggling?"

This is not a good argument. If most of the people that are in E.R. are unvaccinated then it was their choice as well. If the vaccinated are protected from hospitalization then what is the problem?

If death count is the concern here then covid-19 in this country has killed about half a million people and its survival rate is greater than 99%.

Do you know how many people marxism has killed? Its a matter of prioritization as well for me personally.

 2021/9/14 16:54Profile
Platy
Member



Joined: 2019/10/5
Posts: 145


 Re:

Correction to my last post. I didn't see the part where Sreeram mentioned other people with other medical conditions not able to get into E.R. because of unvaccinnated people using up beds.

Its still a matter of prioritization as to which is the greater threat. Marxism > Covid-19. 100,000,000 dead vs 600,000 dead (4.5 million dead worldwide).

 2021/9/14 17:21Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1936


 Re:

I apologize that my post may not be clear. I typed it in hurry and first part of it is my personal view which I dont want to debate here. I am just explaining the context in the first part. 2nd part is the actual question.

The question is clear. We hear that the ER is full of people who are not vaccinated and are having serious Covid side effects. This is blocking needy people from accessing ER due to other medical issues. People who took vaccine are prevented from access to hospitals because the beds are occupied by these unvaccinated people. Should we not be considerate to others and make sure our faith (or lack of it) should not cause harm to others? This is not a false propaganda but a fact in every hospital that are flooded with Covid patients.

I clearly see here that unvaccinated people are harming others by occupying the hospital beds.


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Sreeram

 2021/9/14 20:52Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1936


 Re:

Quote:

Its still a matter of prioritization as to which is the greater threat. Marxism > Covid-19. 100,000,000 dead vs 600,000 dead (4.5 million dead worldwide).



The question is not whether Covid is dangerous or not. Even if we all agree that COvid is not deadly, it is still proven fact that unvaccinated people are having severe symptoms due to Covid that needs hospitalization. But if they chose to be vaccinated then their need for hospitalization can be reduced which will free the hospitals for other needy people.


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Sreeram

 2021/9/14 20:56Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2783
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Vaccine question

I would say the question is based on presumption of "facts" that are questionable. I read recently that in Israel those hospitalized with Covid were 59% vaccinated. Israel has one of the highest vaccination levels in the world.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/nearly-60-of-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-in-israel-fully-vaccinated-study-finds.html

Also, where are the examples of people being turned away?


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Ron Halverson

 2021/9/14 22:31Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1936


 Re:

Here is an example.

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/just-over-96-of-georgias-icu-beds-are-now-full

Here is an extract from this news article.

Quote:


"And, it's not just COVID," Delzell says. "I think one of the things it's easy to forget is that we're worried about COVID all the time, but if you think about a patient who comes in and has a heart attack, and there's no beds available, there's no ICU beds, that person is impacted as well."

Until more people get vaccinated, Delzell says, this may be the new normal.

"The thing I'm worried about is this isn't the last wave," he says. "This is going to go away over the next couple of months, and then it's going to come back."

Delzell says the only way to stem the tide is for more people to get vaccinated.

In Georgia, 44% of residents are fully vaccinated.


It is not just this article. Similar requests are there everywhere including Christian radio channels. I also personally know people in our Church who had to visit multiple hospitals before finding a care. Even a nurse working in a hospital was rejected treatment due to lack of beds!

It is easy to call everything conspiracy and challenge facts sitting behind computers.

As a Christian how will we justify our cause when we turn blind eye to people around us and worry only about few conspiracy theories on vaccines?



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Sreeram

 2021/9/15 7:13Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1936


 Re:

Quote:

My answer is the same I'm going to give to my employers. If you only look at the vaccine and covid-19 then you can make your case for the vaccine. If you look at the bigger picture however then the case is made against the vaccination.



The bigger picture was always bad even before Covid. The world and its system has always been moving in the wrong direction. I will give you one example here.

I came to USA as an unbeliever more than a decade ago. I hated getting into debt because my family had suffered a lot by getting into debt. So I never used credit card in my home country. But here in USA, we have this credit rating system that requires one to hold Credit card. If a person never got into debt then he will never be given debt as well for needy things like buying a house or a car.

Even though I had enough salary to afford a car, a seller rejected to give me a loan because of my lack of credit history. I was forced to accept credit card because of this concept of Credit history. I believe the concept of buy now and pay later is evil. We should only be buying with what money we have. Within our financial boundary that God has given us.

Buying a home or a car in loan is different because if we fail to pay the lender has a resource to get the money back. But credit card is evil because it makes us accept debt for daily bread.

So I decided to pay back my card much earlier than the due date so that I had never to pay interest for my (and my family) daily living expenses. By God's mercy it has been the same way till now.

Now it is not having credit card that makes me a debtor or a sinner who disobeys Romans 13:8, it is how I use it. If I buy stuff that is beyond my paying power just because a bank offers credit card then I get into credit debts and fail to obey Romans 13:8. Then the credit card I hold is a mark of the beast!

Back home in my country of birth, loans are always based on your earning potential. But here the system itself is corrupt to make us live outside our financial boundary.

The point I am making is, the world system is always there to corrupt us and pull us. But we should be careful how we use the system rather than staying away from the system. Even our cellphone can easily keep us away from kingdom of God but it is how we use it that keeps us safe.

I believe a person taking vaccine recognizing that God is still in control, nothing that enters their body can corrupt them (Mark 7:15), will be honored by God. This to me is faith. It is the same faith that, God will give me wisdom to wisely use my Credit card, cell phone, internet etc. All these things can lead us away from the Lord but we still use them by faith that his Grace will protect us.


_________________
Sreeram

 2021/9/15 7:32Profile





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