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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

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drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 780
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

I think it was A. W. Tozer who said you could leave a room where two people were arguing about Calvinism/ Arminianism and come back a year later and they would still be arguing the same points. A believer on either side can get proof texts to make his case, and they sound convincing.

Is God sovereign? Yes.

Does a person make a choice to believe? Yes.

Does God choose us before the foundation of the world? Yes.

We should remember that these same questions have caused needless divisions in time past of genuine believers.

"O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" Romans 11:33


_________________
Nigel Holland

 2021/6/24 16:30Profile
TorontoDan
Member



Joined: 2021/1/13
Posts: 40


 Re:

Brother Nigel,

You choosing God is because he first chose you :).

Man is helpless. To be honest Brother, God uses every circumstance and trial in our life to proof to us that we are helpless. As all things happen according to the counsel of God's will, and they all work for our eternal good, God works every trial to show we can do nothing and receive nothing unless it comes from Him. When one comes to understand this through the teaching of the Holy Spirit, its the beginning of a life of entire faith in Him

Blessings,
Daniel

 2021/6/24 16:47Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5866
NC, USA

 Re:

//Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. 1 John 5:1//

When I read this it means being born of God Is a result of believing Jesus is the Christ. In other words if you believe Jesus is the Christ then you are born of God.

But to each his own.

The more pressing concern is Brightfame’s assertion that Jesus’s death alone is all that is needed (ie no repentance, faith, etc) which of course goes against about all of the NT.


_________________
Todd

 2021/6/24 17:59Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 780
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

Daniel, I agree.

But, if I were to choose right now to reject Jesus and go to hell, God must respect my decision. He wouldn't go against my free will, otherwise He would be a despot.

If you read church history, God used both Calvinists and Arminians to reach the lost. I am decidedly Arminian in my theology, but I call anyone a brother or sister who knows Jesus personally. To separate from a believer or church body over minor doctrinal differences shows a sectarian spirit and quenches the Holy Spirit.

I do live a life of faith entirely dependent on God. He does work all things after the counsel of His own will (Ephesians 1:11), but if I sin, for example, is that God's will? Did He cause me to do that? To say something like that is a logical absurdity.


_________________
Nigel Holland

 2021/6/24 18:08Profile
TorontoDan
Member



Joined: 2021/1/13
Posts: 40


 Re:

Hi Brother Nigel,

The things of God are so unnatural to the natural understanding. If we can believe that God created all things visible in the heavens and earth by the word of His mouth from that which is invisible, we can start to understand the almighty power and awesomeness of our God and how we are nothing but vapor before Him. We will live our life each day the way we should all be living our lives before Him, in awe of this awesome God that we don't love nor do we know. What is just for God to crucify His own Son for our sins? If you can answer that question, you get the answer to all questions of His justice and righteousness. My brother, I'm not here to argue at all. I'm simply sharing that God is doing a work in your heart even right now. He works out His salvation in you by His Holy Spirit living in you. That salvation is the finished work of the living Christ, His death and life. Blessings brother, Daniel

 2021/6/24 19:07Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 843
Australia

 Re:


Quote:
I'm simply sharing that God is doing a work in your heart even right now. He works out His salvation in you by His Holy Spirit living in you. That salvation is the finished work of the living Christ, His death and life.



Amen.


_________________
Jade

 2021/6/25 3:43Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 843
Australia

 Re:


Quote:
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. 1 John 5:1



Consider these scripture verses:

John 20:31 –
but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

John 6:40 –
“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

Acts 16:31 –
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

These scripture verses say that “believing” precedes salvation and receiving eternal life.


Comment:

We are saved by God’s word and work and faithfulness alone, but we must have faith in God’s word and work and faithfulness. Whatever is not from faith is sin (Rom. 14:23)

I agree that all men are totally fallen and no one is able to produce the faith in himself to be saved.

It is the Gospel of Christ that has the power to stir up faith in all who hear:

Rom. 10:17 –
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

The word (Gospel) of Christ generates faith in us (Rom. 10:17) and causes us to be born again (1 Pet. 1:23).

1 Pet. 1:23 –
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.

The “whoever” in John 3:16 indicates that a man has a choice to embrace God’s offer of salvation or harden his heart.

Heb. 14:15 –
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

Heb. 3:19 –
So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.


_________________
Jade

 2021/6/25 3:44Profile









 Re:

The Blood/Death of Christ not only legally saved all for whom He died, but it also effects experiential salvation or conversion. Heb 9:12-14

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.


13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:


14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?


"How much more shall the blood of Christ purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"


You see this ? Its the powerful Blood of Christ that converts them He died for unto serving the living God. That means they shall live by the Faith of Christ unto serving the True and Living God.


1 Thess 1:9

For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

​This is a result of the powerful effectual blood of Christ !15

 2021/6/26 5:04









 Re: TMK

Christs death is the catalyst, foundation for all other spiritual blessings given to them He died for to convert them to God. Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

 2021/6/26 5:10
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5866
NC, USA

 Re:

If you changed the phrase “for whom he died for” to “for those who believe” I am in 100% agreement.

Your phraseology is objectionable. I am curious why you insist on stressing this point, as I believe you have made your point. If that’s what you want to believe, nobody here cares. But your point has been rebutted so at minimum it’s a stalemate so likely time to move on.


_________________
Todd

 2021/6/26 7:53Profile





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