SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Daniel 12:9 vs Rev. 22:10

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )
PosterThread
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5831
NC, USA

 Daniel 12:9 vs Rev. 22:10

“He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and *sealed* until the time of the end.”
Daniel 12:9

Then he told me, “*Do not seal up* the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the *time is near*.”
Revelation 22:10

Thoughts?


_________________
Todd

 2021/6/2 12:31Profile
TrueWitness
Member



Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 551


 Re: Daniel 12:9 vs Rev. 22:10

We humans have a tendency to have a different perspective on what it means to be "near" than perhaps what the Bible means as near. John wrote the Book of Revelation around 90 A.D. and yet the angel told him in the verse you quoted that the "time is near". Here we are in 2021 and much of Revelation is still future. And yet the Bible tells us that a thousand years is as a day in the Lord's calendar. I suppose the take away is that we are all supposed to be ready at all times and be alert and serious about our lives and the future. Let us be like the wise virgins who kept oil for when the Master tarried and fainted not.

-Daniel

 2021/6/3 9:35Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5831
NC, USA

 Re:

//Here we are in 2021 and much of Revelation is still future.//

Is it? Who told you this?

Also it is far from certain Rev. was written as late as 90 AD.


_________________
Todd

 2021/6/3 10:54Profile
TrueWitness
Member



Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 551


 Re:

I forgot that you are preterist Todd. I don't wish to debate you on that. Let us just agree to disagree. I don't have animus toward people who have honest differing views about eschatology. I often see why people choose to believe those differing views. It will be interesting to see how things actually unfold. Be blessed and may the gospel of God go forth and bear fruit and bring glory to God.

-Daniel

 2021/6/3 11:06Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5831
NC, USA

 Re:

Partial preterist! There is a big difference.

Just an aside I learned something interesting about John Darby, who essentially created the dispensationalist view in the mid 1850s (pretrib rapture, literal 7 year tribulation etc) which really wasn’t taught prior to this. He said he discovered a lost teaching of the apostles.

Anyways, his teaching spread because he was a Plymouth Brethren, who was really the only group actually doing Bible teaching in England at the time (certainly not the RCs or the Anglicans). So if people wanted Bible teaching they went to the Plymouth Brethren. Anyways, CI Scofield, an attorney became enamored by his teaching and created the Scofield study Bible with all its footnotes (necessary to explain the twistings of dispensationalism). That Bible became very popular in the US in the early 1900s (my grandmother had one).

Then Lewis Sperry Chafer fell under the teaching of Darby and he founded Dallas Theological Seminary which stressed dispensationalism. Almost all major radio pastors and evangelical authors today went to Dallas. Of course all they have taught is dispensationalism because that is all THEY were taught.

Hal Lindsey followed his schemes as does Hagee et al.

The question on the table is whether Darby’s dispensationalism is even correct given its complete absence in the Church prior to around 1830.

I think this is an an example of false teaching being propagated innocently down the years so much so that the great majority of evangelicals believe it, **because that is all they have ever been taught and have never even thought to consider the origins of the teaching and whether it can stand up to vigorous examination**.


_________________
Todd

 2021/6/3 11:55Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 839
Australia

 Re:



This dispensation teaching is strange to me ----- That the kingdom foretold by the prophets is an earthly kingdom for the Jews. That Christ came 2000 years ago to offer this kingdom to the Jews and when the Jews rejected Him as the Messiah, the offer was withdrawn and postponed to a future dispensation. Thus Daniel’s 70th Week was accordingly postponed for an indefinite period of time. And to fill the huge gap between Daniel’s 69th and 70th Weeks, a “Church Age” was conceived, promulgated, and accepted without question by Christians far and wide as absolute biblical truth.

But far from the “Church Age” being a “great parenthesis in God’s prophetic plan”, an “afterthought”, and the church being secondary in importance to ethnic Jews, Scripture declares that the Church was chosen in Christ BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, and God had PREDESTINED the Church to adoption as His sons through Christ Jesus in accordance with His pleasure and will (Eph. 1:4-5).

Christ and His Church are ONE, filled with the love and glory of God. And Christ is above all (except God the Father who is greater than all).

John 17:22-26 –
"The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me. Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, although the world has not known You, yet I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me; and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them."

Eph. 1:18-22 –
I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead, and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet,and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

The Church is the pillar and foundation of TRUTH (2 Tim. 3:15).


Note:
All CAPS are just to emphasize my point. NOT to yell at anyone.


Blessings





_________________
Jade

 2021/6/4 23:22Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 770
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re:

"For when Daniel said, 'I shall make my covenant for one week,' he indicated seven years; and the one half of the week is for the preaching of the prophets, and for the other half of the week - that is to say, for three years and a half - Antichrist will reign upon the earth." -Hippolytus, 170-235 AD

"For he (Antichrist) being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, nor as a legitimate king, [i.e., one] in subjection to God, but an impious, unjust, and lawless one; as an apostate, iniquitous and murderous; as a robber, concentrating in himself [all] satanic apostasy, and setting aside idols to persuade [men] that he himself is God, raising up himself as the only idol, having in himself the multifarious errors of the other idols. This he does, in order that they who do [now] worship the devil by means of many abominations, may serve himself by this one idol, of whom the apostle thus speaks in the second Epistle to the Thessalonians: "Unless there shall come a failing away first, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself as if he were God." The apostle therefore clearly points out his apostasy, and that he is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped -- that is, above every idol -- for these are indeed so called by men, but are not [really] gods; and that he will endeavour in a tyrannical manner to set himself forth as God." Irenaeus,130-202 AD, Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter 25


_________________
Nigel Holland

 2021/6/5 1:40Profile
deogloria
Member



Joined: 2020/2/12
Posts: 116


 Re:

The topic has been discussed in various forms many times.
So I just want to make a few basic comments for now.

Todd has given a very good background how some teachings came into the church and the dangers if we don't test everything.
In church we want to be accepted and in Seminaries we want to pass exams with good marks, - seen it all.
We need to test our beliefs from Scripture (Sola Scriptura ) and not what some Church Fathers have written.

24“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity,to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
"Seventy" doesn't need to be interpreted. It always means 70 in the Bible.

"Tribulation" is mentioned about 45 times in the NT , but never as a 7-year period.
instead: "through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God". Simple !

We all need to be a bit careful and not concentrate too much on -isms. Otherwise we might not see the forest for the trees, that would be the real tragedy !
I might comment a bit later what I mean by that.

 2021/6/5 2:31Profile
BranchinVINE
Member



Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 839
Australia

 Re:


Is there scripture that can be cited to validate what Hippolytus said?

What does Hippolytus mean by "the preaching of the prophets"?

Did Irenaeus transport the 2 Thess. passage into Daniel's 70th week?


_________________
Jade

 2021/6/5 4:35Profile
jochbaptist
Member



Joined: 2010/11/24
Posts: 322


 24 elders, not 12

Revelation 4: 1-4
1 After this I looked, and behold, ...
2 At once I was in the Spirit, and ...
3 And he who sat there had the appearance of jasper ....
4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders, clothed in white garments, with golden crowns on their heads.

Cut this short to focus on verse 4.

The church and Israel incorporated from erernity passed.


_________________
J Kruger

 2021/6/5 5:30Profile





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy