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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Jesus' Curse of Israel and Promise Concerning Them

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savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2145


 Jesus' Curse of Israel and Promise Concerning Them


Mark 11:12-14,20-22

And on the morrow, when they were come out from Bethany, he hungered. And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find anything thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for it was not the season of figs. And he answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit from thee henceforward for ever. And his disciples heard it.


And as they passed by in the morning, they saw the fig tree withered away from the roots. And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Rabbi, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away. And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

Matthew 21:33-45

There was a man that was a householder, which planted a vineyard, and set a hedge about it, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into another country. And when the season of the fruits drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, to receive his fruits. And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them in like manner. But afterward he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But the husbandmen, when they saw the son, said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and take his inheritance. And they took him, and cast him forth out of the vineyard, and killed him. When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those miserable men, and will let out the vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner: This was from the Lord, And it is marvelous in our eyes?

Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. And he that falleth on this stone shall be broken to pieces: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will scatter him as dust.

And when the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

 2021/5/26 9:35Profile
narrowpath
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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1196
Germany NRW

 Re: Jesus' Curse of Israel and Promise Concerning Them

Hi savannah,

this is all biblical truth, and your point is?

How do you see this in conjunction with Romans 11?

 2021/5/27 8:59Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2145


 Re: no points



Hi narrowpath,

This is all biblical truth. Listen to Jesus!

Luke 9:33-36
Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is good that we are here. Let us make three tents, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah”—not realizing what he said. As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One; listen to him!” And when the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone.

There's absolutely no disagreement,conflict or contradiction between Jesus, and Paul in Romans 11.

Moses nor Elijah nor Savannah nor narrowpath have any points over against Jesus. If you need to read over again what Jesus said in the OP then do so.

I chose to title the thread, "Jesus' curse of Israel and Promise Concerning Them", because those two things are recorded in the Word of God. Jesus cursed Israel and made an eternal Promise concerning them.

Will you indict Jesus for His Words and actions?

 2021/5/27 14:47Profile
AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3783
Louisiana

 Re:

This is what happens if you curse the Jewish people - Derek Prince:

https://youtu.be/AoyjLvslPfQ


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Mike

 2021/5/28 7:25Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5829
NC, USA

 Re:

It would probably be more helpful if you would address the scriptures savannah quoted.

How do you interpret what Jesus did/said?


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Todd

 2021/5/28 9:34Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2145


 Re: This is what happens if you curse the Jewish people



Luke 13:6-9

And Jesus spake a parable; a certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came seeking fruit thereon, and found none. And he said unto the vinedresser, Behold these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none; cut it down; why doth it also cumber the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, until I shall dig about it, and dung it: and if it bear fruit thenceforth, well; but if not, thou shalt cut it down.

ANALOGIES IN THE Parable by JB Coffman -

Owner of the vineyard = the heavenly Father

The vinedresser = the Lord Jesus Christ

The vineyard = the world

The fig tree = the Jewish nation

Three years = the first three years of Jesus' ministry

Fruitlessness = Israel's rejection of Jesus

This year also = Jesus' final year of preaching

Thou shalt cut it down = God's judgment against Israel

"These three years" refer to the special anticipation upon the part of the Father that when the Son of God appeared Israel would receive and acknowledge him. The whole history of the chosen people was epitomized by what took place in the ministry of Jesus.

The fig tree in this parable undoubtedly stands for Israel.

Christ's use of a period of 3 years was not coincidental. It came first in the sentence, and coincided with a number of other "threes" in this chapter, the parable itself being the third call to repentance. Also, the three measures of meal (Luke 13:20) point to some definite meaning.

In this, the fig tree is the Jewish nation, God the owner, Christ the vinedresser. The fig tree is condemned for fruitlessness, but the vinedresser asks for more time in order that it might yet bear fruit. If not, that is, if the Jewish nation fails to bear fruit it is to be destroyed. So it was in 70AD.

 2021/5/28 20:31Profile
deogloria
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Joined: 2020/2/12
Posts: 116


 Re:

This discussion is also not helpful, it is not very accurate and doesn't show the complete picture.

just a quick quote: "if the Jewish nation fails to bear fruit it is to be destroyed. So it was in 70AD. "
I don't think there was a "Jewish nation " at the time of Christ. They were under Roman rule.
But more importantly in AD 70 the Jews were not destroyed but scattered to the four corners of the world.
Another point: Jews are not = "Israel". Israel had about 12 tribes.

Isaiah 11:12 He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; He will collect the scattered of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isaiah 54…6For the LORD has called you back, like a wife deserted and wounded in spirit, like the rejected wife of one’s youth,” says your God. 7“For a brief moment I forsook you, but with great compassion I will bring you back. 8In a surge of anger I hid My face from you for a moment, but with everlasting kindness I will have compassion on you,” says the LORD your Redeemer.…

Jeremiah 50:4 “In those days and at that time, declares the LORD, the children of Israel and the children of Judah will come together, weeping as they come, and will seek the LORD their God. 5They will ask the way to Zion and turn their faces toward it. They will come and join themselves to the LORD in an everlasting covenant that will never be forgotten.…

I think most importantly we don't learn from those examples
Might start a different thread at some stage to explain a bit more that we are no better then them.

It is all by Grace alone...

Markus

 2021/5/28 21:39Profile
savannah
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Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2145


 Re: h.a.c.




"This discussion is also not helpful, it is not very accurate and doesn't show the complete picture."

Just because it's not helpful to you, nor accurate to you, doesn't mean it's not.

And you have certainly not made the picture complete with your post.

"It is all by Grace alone" is elemental to the gospel!

Israel and Jews are used synonymously throughout the Scriptures.

We might just as well say "the church in the wilderness" (Acts 7:38).

 2021/5/28 22:21Profile
narrowpath
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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1196
Germany NRW

 Re:


@Savannah
So what would you say is the promise to the Jews then?
Do they have anything more to hope for?
Will they come back to their savor or have they blown their opportunity when Christ ministered in their land?

What role do you think plays present day Israel in Gods plan? Do you think God will still deal with Israel particularily in the end times or do you think it all finished in 70 a.D.?

 2021/5/29 7:52Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4582


 Re: Jesus' Curse of Israel and Promise Concerning Them

Hi savannah,

Quote:
Jesus' Curse of Israel and Promise Concerning Them



Could you let me know which specific passage it is that you're referring to regarding a "curse of Israel" uttered by Jesus?


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Christopher

 2021/5/29 12:50Profile





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