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murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1577
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. Roms 6:6

Knowing this

Now I have to observe, I trust I’m not cynical, that in many places where Paul says “you know” or "knowing” or other words like that, I have to say frankly the majority of contemporary Christians don’t know. Quote - Derek Price

Our old man was crucified with Him - the old nature that is born into every descendant of Adam.

Freed from sin

For he who has died has been freed from sin. Rom 6:7

Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him Rom 6:7

Alive with Christ...


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Colin Murray

 2021/5/11 19:02Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1930


 Re:

Old man and flesh are 2 different things. Old man is the person who wants to sin and his nature is to Sin. But when we are born again the old man dies and we become a new creation in Christ. But the old flesh is still alive in us. Flesh still tempts us to sin. We need to put our flesh to death every single day by taking up the cross.

That is why when we are born again we get a new nature that does not want to sin.

If our flesh is also dead then why is Paul telling -
Gal 5:16 - So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

The evil desires of the flesh are still well alive in us but we got a new nature that does not want to satisfy this evil desires of the flesh.

The new man still needs to be fed everyday and kept strong in Christ else he can be defeated with sin originating from our flesh.


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Sreeram

 2021/5/11 21:02Profile
JFW
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Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1597
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Sree

Amen!
Indeed it is as you say, and that dear brother is why grace (His divine influence) is so vital in order to keep step:))
While I do understand what brother Vern is saying,.. there is a sincere appreciation for you parsing this out because the distinction is there and you articulated it clearly 🙏🏻


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Fletcher

 2021/5/11 21:49Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5916
NC, USA

 Re:

I agree- there needs to be balance in this.


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Todd

 2021/5/11 22:18Profile
beloved-vern
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Joined: 2020/9/15
Posts: 39


 Reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin

Rom. 6:11, "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Reckoning is a banking term. Lets say that someone tells you that they just deposited 1 million dollars into you bank account. Yes- you get all excited and go to the bank counting on the fact that it is there and withdraw some money. Please note that reckoning - does not put the money there. No amount of reckoning can make it true. You reckon and count on it because you know it is already an existing fact. If it was not an existing fact you could never reckon it to be so - IMPOSSIBLE.

There are two things we must realize that we are told to reckon. The first thing we need to realize and know is the fact that we are NOW DEAD INDEED UNTO SIN. Now this is an unchangeable divine fact that was already done for us by Christ on the Cross. The scripture plainly states that when He was crucified we were crucified WITH HIM. When He died - We died. 2 Cor. 5:14-15, "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

The second part is realizing and knowing that we are NOW alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. If you missed what I posted before about this please read it here.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=63449&forum=36

Now the all important thing is that you get that, first. You reckon yourself dead unto sin. Get that! Get that clear. Now the next step is for you to make it clear that you are alive unto God through our Lord Jesus Christ. That is a relationship but now it is not a just a relationship, it is union with God and Christ. It is replacement. It isn't just a relationship unto God through Lord Jesus Christ. It is a replacement. Christ has taken me over. That is a deeper thing.

Some of you can't quite get that yet, because you have this false concept, "I'm my own person - a kind of independent person," which is a lie. "You are dead to the law" because if you are there, the law shouts at you, and it shows that you're not in union. The law is there while I think I'm and independent person - or under Satan. That's the law. It tells you, you shouldn't be that! So while you are under the law you are under a false illusion. As long as you believe that you are under law it will shout at you because you think you are independent.

Gal. 5:1, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage." Now this is our liberty. We're delivered from being controlled by this old self - that quality of self-centeredness. And we have in its place the Spirit of Self-giving love. And we operate from that basis! You only begin to get deliverance when you affirm those things. The boldness is easy for to see but some of us are so confused. We don't dare to affirm these things but we've got to affirm them.

If you affirm your union with Christ and if you affirm that you'll never sin again, because sin is the principle of self and you'll never do that again because . You may slip into sin. You affirm that. You find that what you settle into is reality, and then you don't get bothered by the sins because when you slip you say, "OK, I slipped, but I'm not geared to that again. I just slipped." And come back. That's all. You learn something of this liberated life

You will only begin to get deliverance when you affirm those things. The boldness is easy you as you see this truth and you need to speak it out with boldness. As you take this truth in yourself it will settle within you and then this truth actually takes you over without effort. Now I must make your part clear - you must take the truth, embrace the truth, eat the truth and make it yours. GOD DOES NOT DO THAT FOR YOU - YOU MUST DO IT. Be bold and say "I am going to take it THIS TRUTH and therefore I'll take it by speaking a word of faith knowing I am strong in faith. I give glory to God because I am fully persuaded that what He has said He is able also to perform it in me NOW." By doing this I have totally conformed myself to God's truth. This completely destroys and totally delivers me from any false idea of any self-reliance. Yes you MUST TAKE IT as belonging to you. Faith sees it and just takes it - receives that truth as the existing reality.

This is the requited mixing of our faith that all but two did not do. " For, indeed, we have had the gospel preached to us, even as they also; but the Word did not profit those hearing it, not having been mixed with faith in the ones who heard." Look what Caleb said "The land we passed through and explored is an exceedingly good land. If the LORD delights in us, He will bring us into this land, a land flowing with milk and honey, and He will give it to us. Only do not rebel against the LORD, and do not be afraid of the people of the land, for they will be like bread for us. Their protection has been removed, and the LORD is with us. Do not be afraid of them!"

So now go to the window and open it and stick you head out and yell, "I'm crucified with Christ, I live, no I don't live, Christ lives in me." I have changed over from wrong self in Satan to - not I but Christ. I now live in the flesh and I live it by the recognition that is not just me. An exchange has taken place and now Christ is my life and no other life exists. Christ is the author and finisher of my Faith and I now live by HIS faith - the faith of the Son of God, Who loved me and gave Himself for me. I am now under new management and I have a new operating system. I know that God He's my Father! He's Daddy. All my old bondage is out. I dare to believe that I am free to be myself and God is now operating through me and operating in me!"

 2021/5/12 10:18Profile
TrueWitness
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Joined: 2006/8/10
Posts: 558


 Re: Reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin

The way I understand it is that these truths, "I am dead to sin", "I no longer live but Christ lives in me", etc. are POSITIONAL truths that are indeed 100% true of our newborn spirit man. But just like the Israelites entering the Promised Land, they did in fact own by way of title deed granted by God the Promised Land but in order to enjoy the blessing they had to go and POSSESS the land by faith with God going before them and empowering them to conquer. This faith was very much an active responsibility they had to do or perhaps "step out into" by way of conflict with the opposing darkness that prevented them entry. It was not just some mental assent thing and *poof* it's done. And again, when they did their part in active faith, God's power showed up and made good their possession and overcoming.

-Daniel

 2021/5/12 10:50Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1930


 Re:

Quote:

The way I understand it is that these truths, "I am dead to sin", "I no longer live but Christ lives in me", etc. are POSITIONAL truths that are indeed 100% true of our newborn spirit man. But just like the Israelites entering the Promised Land, they did in fact own by way of title deed granted by God the Promised Land but in order to enjoy the blessing they had to go and POSSESS the land by faith with God going before them and empowering them to conquer.



This is exactly my understanding as well. If we take your example of Israel possessing the promise land by faith, we can read in Jeremiah that the false prophets secured Israel by giving them a false hope that the promise land is a title deed granted by God and they do not need to go as exiles to Babylon. But God had other plans and he gave them as exiles. Going as exiles is contrary to the promise of God but that is the word of God that Jeremiah spoke in contrast to the false prophets who gave false hope but based it on God's promise.

Even today I can see the same parallel. All this false hope given using NT promises like "you no longer live and CHrist is living inside you" ( Gal 2:20) to unrepentant believers, just like false prophets in Jeremiah's time did.

When we take any promise of God and ignore the condition then we believe and preach a false hope.


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Sreeram

 2021/5/12 12:11Profile





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