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Discussion Forum : General Topics : What ever happened to American Church

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Onesimus4God
Member



Joined: 2006/1/16
Posts: 309
Pinson, Alabama, USA

 What ever happened to American Church

Courtesy of David N. Carwile
"What ever happened to the American Church?"
Something is awry when:
■ Pastors function like CEOs
■ Members are turned into customers
■ Other churches are seen as competitors
■ Evangelism is reduced to marketing
■ Church planting looks more like franchising
■ Numbers are the primary measure of success
■ Prayer and Word Study are replaced by formulas
■ Revival is reduced to a few days of fund-raising
■ Preaching sounds more like a motivational speech. All the people do is shout "I receive, Amen," throughout the concert. I mean the "service."
■ Praise and Worship is turned into a performance. The best actors are made the worship and praise leaders
■ THE SPIRIT OF GOD is reduced to "emotionalism." No real power of GOD other than hypnosis and sensationalism.
■ The saints are entertained instead of equipped
■ Disciples of CHRIST have become puppets
■ The Church, once a living Body, has now become a lifeless body
■ A leader's empire is built, instead of THE KINGDOM OF GOD advanced
■ The pastor becomes the superman and JESUS CHRIST is reduced to just another religious figure.
Is American Christianity becoming just another Cult?
SELAH


_________________
Lahry Sibley

 2021/4/25 9:05Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2389


 Re: What ever happened to American Church

Can Carwile or you maybe make a list of five or six things you see the church under God's guiding hand is doing right? Many leaders and churches are not doing the things on your list, you just have to have an eye to see them and a discerning heart to acknowledge them. You seem completely obsessed with negativity against the church that God loves.


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David Winter

 2021/4/25 14:52Profile
CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 537
Cambodia

 Re:

Brother David,

Here's a sermon posted by a guy that is featured on SI at times that was delivered very recently that speaks to your question or challenge to the poster. It's by Anton Bosch.
I'd be interested in knowing the thoughts of you and the poster as to his message.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRRQTFMauV8





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Robert

 2021/4/25 20:07Profile
drifter
Member



Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 756
Campbell River, B.C.

 Re: What ever happened to American Church

Hi Lahry. I agree these kinds of things happen in what we call "christendom", i.e. any church that names the name of Christ or any professing christian. It is important to distinguish between christendom and the true church, which I believe is made up of every born again, blood bought lover of Jesus, regardless of what denomination they are a part of or what label they have.

What grieves me is the world looks closely at christians, because deep down, they know Jesus is the only way, but in many instances instead of seeing a true example of Christ's followers, they see charlatans on television begging for money, they see phony "miracles" being propagated, they see hypocrites that name the name of Jesus and act just like they do.


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Nigel Holland

 2021/4/25 22:18Profile
billy1980
Member



Joined: 2016/3/9
Posts: 251


 Re:

Whatever happened to the American church?

The flesh, the spirit of the world, and the spirits of wickedness in heavenly places, meaning Satan and the fallen angels.

Let us be honest a born again Christian falls prey to all three if they do not abide in Christ brother. We are in a real spiritual battle, and victory only comes through Christ.

Peter said, "if it is with difficulty that the righteous is saved, what will become of the godless man and the sinner?"

Many though they have a biblical knowledge are blinded by the spirit of this world. They do not know inwardly our crucified Christ, and the new life He promises in Him. They follow our three enemy's blinded. Paul's heart went out to them, desperately wanting them to come to the true knowledge inwardly concerning Christ and Him crucified, and resurrected for even their sins.

So what has happened? Many have stopped abiding in Christ, some have not learned how to yet, and others do not yet know Jesus. Thus our three enemy's direct much called church at this time, though not all! Our dependence is truly on Christ to wake us all up at this time, and direct us in Him to Victory through Him, by His Spirit, and not by any human means.


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William

 2021/4/26 1:11Profile
docs
Member



Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2389


 Re:

I listened to most of this message by Brother Bosch. I agreed with what he said, although I don't see the message as totally original because I have heard it spoken in different ways by different people in recent years. Yet I saw it as well spoken and timely. However, is this all there is to say?

I've never been in churches that operate the way the churches do on the poster's list. I'm not in one now. I'm supposing because of my faith in God's ability that there are many local congregations today that, in spite of their shortcomings, are doing many things right. Some may be, but I don't see all local expressions of the body of Christ as tottering near the precipice of being judged as many seem to want to infer. The OP, though probably not part of any congregation anywhere, only posts the most searing denouncing and criticism of the church he can come up with. Nothing is ever positive. Therefore, I asked, in spite of his constant brow beating and condemning broadsides against the church, and though he is likely not a participating member of any local church (I stand to be corrected if I am wrong), can he perhaps list four or five things he thinks the true church is doing right? If the true church is not doing anything right at all, then what kind of God do we serve? I've seen a trend in the body of Christ that if one speaks great and swelling words against the church in all its expressions then one feels spiritual somehow. After all, that's what us macho men do in the body of Christ these days! It may not be necessarily so in the Lord's eyes. God's true church is not an object of scorn and derision in God's eyes, it is the apple of His eye and He is well able to oversee and form it the way He desires. In spite of a visible apostate church. I think many believers are so grieved and in opposition of the apostate church, and they should be, that they almost label the whole church as so. It ain't so in my opinion. Neither do they, me included, spend lengthly times of prayer and intercession. It's easier to criticize. So, I can agree with Brother Bosch but I don't think his strong and needed word will end up being the last word.

Meanwhile, CofG, can you perhaps name four or five things you think the true church is doing right at this time? I'm not trying to load you with a gotcha statement, or set you up. But I am wondering. Is everything everywhere wrong with the church or do you see some things as being done correctly at this time by the true church? If you see some things as being done correctly, what are they?

Thank you.


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David Winter

 2021/4/26 13:50Profile
CofG
Member



Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 537
Cambodia

 Re:

To be honest Brother David, what I think is of little and probably no importance. Paul loved the church at Corinth like a nursing mother and a caring father. Yet, he had some very harsh words for his spiritual children. He called them babies but upbraided them for certain dangerous attitudes and behavior. He later asked them if they wanted him to come with a rod of discipline or in gentleness of love. Of course, that was actually the word of the Spirit and the heart of God for that moment. It’s what they needed to hear as far as God was concerned. Multiple other examples in the OT of this. In other places Paul by the Spirit encouraged churches in other locales for their deep faith and sacrificial brotherly love. Just depends on the place and the need. Sometimes the problem has become so pervasive among a group of people that a broader warning is God’s desire.

Like when Jesus came the first time and addressed God’s people. Of course there were some who were directionally right with the Lord but overall, a need for rebuke. Similarly, God calls the faithful to come out of Babylon in Revelation 18. This is more than a geographical coming out. The warning is very broad and the audience addressed very large and is made in love to His treasured and greatly loved possession. Given the danger involved, God didn’t take the time or see the need to commend them for the things they were right in.

I know you know these things so I guess it really comes down to how one discerns the times and the degree of danger and need. It isn’t a “report card” issue to me.

But, to answer your question, I deeply love the Bride and see her as a treasured possession of Jesus and therefore of mine.


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Robert

 2021/4/26 21:32Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2011
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: What ever happened to American Church

Lahry et. al.

I would have to agree that I have seen all of the problems you have listed in the American "church" in one place or another. We do have a broken system to a large degree. But the question that we must ask is, how will it ever be fixed? This problem boils down to individuals and the choices they make.

God is moving in power in the church in America. There are men and women who are selling out to the Lord, denying themselves to follow Him. There are churches that are after the Kingdom and have a Kingdom mindset. People in these churches are being equipped by apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers, overseen by anointed elders, and are beginning to rise up to do the work of the ministry rather than simply attending a meeting for self-serving reasons.

People are being born again, delivered from demonic bondage, freed from sin, and discipled. These people are growing in the Lord and maturing into the full stature of the measure of Christ.

How do I know this? I am watching it happen. Such a blessing to see it happening in many places all over the United States.

What will happen to the nominal church that is not after the Kingdom (The one you spoke of Lahry.)? Many who are hungry and dissatisfied will come out. Many who are satisfied will stay, and the move of God will bypass them. We should weep for these. But at the same time we need to lift up our eyes. Jesus is coming soon, but until He appears He wants to reveal His glory in and through us and use us as ministers of reconciliation to the world around us.

The church is not dead, nor is it dying. The church of the Living God, the citizens of His kingdom are rising up in the power of God and I believe that one of the greatest revivals in history is right before us.

Travis


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Travis

 2021/5/3 11:45Profile
sb1175
Member



Joined: 2011/8/11
Posts: 5


 Re:

saints,
i have a quote on my desk on a little sticky note by my screen that i always try to read every day. Here it is: "The measure of my spirit of criticism is the measure of my distance from Christ" E Stanley Jones.


Bill, thank you for that scripture in 1st Peter 4. It pierced right through. It reminded me of the scripture: "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able" Luke 13:24.


The word strive is actually agonize. (this I learned from Mr. Rolfe Barnard) Love people people. Love people. I've only found the remedy to be (like Bill said) to stick as close as possible to the fountain of the bread of Life everyday, our Lord and Christ Jesus

 2021/5/6 12:46Profile





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