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TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5955
NC, USA

 Re:

Because the language of Zech 14 seems allegorical and apocalyptic.

Are there really going to be zombies walking around?

Do you really think Jesus is going to require animal sacrifices? Not according to Hebrews.


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Todd

 2021/4/25 7:43Profile
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2403


 Re:

When Christ returns to the earth, which geographical location on a physical earth do you think His feet will touch down at? If He is going to return to the earth, at which location on earth?


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David Winter

 2021/4/25 8:54Profile
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 Re:

It may be the Mount of Olives; but this passage was also literally fulfilled at His first Advent. The issue is whether this passage is talking allegorically about the ramifications of his first advent and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, or his second advent yet future.

Folks who feel it must be future say so because the Mt of Olives has not literally been split in two and the city of Jerusalem has not literally been raised up in elevation and living waters haven’t literally flown out of Jerusalem.

Or have they?🤔


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Todd

 2021/4/25 9:50Profile
BranchinVINE
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Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 902
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 Re: David (docs)

Quote:
I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; they shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; they shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. I WILL PLANT THEM IN THIER LAND, and no longer shall they be pulled up FROM THE LAND I HAVE GIVEN THEM, says the Lord your God. (Amos 9:14-15)



Full text of this prophecy:

Amos 9:11-15 (NKJV) --

11 “On that day I will raise up
The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down,
And repair its damages;
I will raise up its ruins,
And rebuild it as in the days of old;
12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom,
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,”
Says the LORD who does this thing.
13 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD,
“When the plowman shall overtake the reaper,
And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;
The mountains shall drip with sweet wine,
And all the hills shall flow with it.
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;
They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;
They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
15 I will plant them in their land,
And no longer shall they be pulled up
From the land I have given them,”
Says the LORD your God.


James quoted this prophecy in Acts 15:13-18 –

13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me:
14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name.
15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:
16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the LORD who does all these things.’

This establishes that Amos’ prophecy relates to:

(1) The Gospel Era which began after the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus and Pentecost.

(2) The New Israel that comprises both Jewish and Gentile believers (Acts. 14:27; 15:3,8,17; Rom. 9:6-18; Gal. 3:29, 4:28).

(3) The New Covenant which is “not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor. 3:6)”. Accordingly, circumcision under the law of Moses was not required (Acts 15:1, 28-29, Gal. 6:15).


It is noteworthy that it is the tabernacle of David at Mt. Zion (2 Sam. 5:7,9; 1 Chr. 15:1, 16:1) and NOT the temple of Solomon at Mt. Moriah what would be rebuilt (Amos 9:11, ACTS 15:16).


God did not allow David to build a temple, so the tabernacle of David was the place of worship for the greater part of David’s reign.

When David died, Solomon built the temple at Moriah and David’s tabernacle at Zion fell into ruin.

But God had promised that He would raise up David’s Seed (Christ) who would build a house for God’s name and God will establish the throne of His kingdom forever (2 Sam. 7:12-13).

Christ has pitched a heavenly tabernacle.

Heb. 8:1,2 –
Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man.

The Church, which is the New Jerusalem, is called the tabernacle of God in Rev. 21:1-3, 9-10.

The church of the living God is the pillar and support of the truth. (1 Tim. 3:15).

All believers, both Jew and Gentile, are “living stones” in the spiritual house that God is building in Zion (1 Pet. 2:4-6, Eph. 2:11-22).

It is a heavenly tabernacle in heavenly Zion (Heb. 12:22-23).

It is a heavenly city that Abraham was looking for (Heb. 11:10, 16).

John 8:58 –
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."


The blessings in AMOS 11:13-14 are only a dim shadow of the “unfathomable riches of Christ” (Eph. 3:8).

Eph. 1:3 (BLB) –
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the One having blessed us IN CHRIST with EVERY SPIRITUAL BLESSING IN THE HEAVENLY REALMS,


Re: AMOS 11:15 –
My Comment:
Nothing on this earth is permanent. Only the spiritual and the heavenly are eternal.


Col. 3:1-2 –
Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
SET YOUR MINDS ON THE THINGS THAT ARE ABOVE, NOT ON THE THINGS THAT ARE ON EARTH.

Comment:
Why would anyone raised up with Christ and seated in heavenly places in Christ desire any part of this cursed earth that will be burned up (2 Pet. 3:10)?


PROPHECY OF CHRIST REIGNING IN THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID:

Isaiah 16:15 –
A throne will even be established in lovingkindness,
And a judge will sit on it in faithfulness in the tent of David;
Moreover, he will seek justice
And be prompt in righteousness.

Comment:

(1) Christ’s throne is a throne of grace (Heb. 4:16).

John 1:14 –
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

(2) Justice is essentially to make things right for those who are wronged.

2 Cor. 5:21 –
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.


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Jade

 2021/4/27 3:18Profile
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 Re:

This is a very interesting discussion. I'd like to add that we don't know the exact or specific timing of the Lord's return.

As much as I believe that events are transpiring quickly, we are still left with a mystery regarding the exact timing of our Lord's return. After all, many believers have died waiting for our Lord's return to this earth (and many with the belief that they would live to see it).

When the nation began, many didn't see itself as a "nation." In fact, the definition of "nation" has an interesting etymology that involves united groups with shared culture, heritage and history. In early laws and legislation, it was often referred to as a "country," "land" or simply "states." These states literally "united" at the time that they declared independence from Great Britain (in 1776).

While I would suggest that the common history and increasingly powerful federal government of the United States constitutes the definition of a "nation," there are many who still argue that the U.S. is not an actual "nation." They point to the sovereignty of the states and limits to the federal government (according to the Constitution) that invoke the U.S. as more of an alliance or confederacy of states.

This was one reason why the south declared itself a "confederacy" in its name at the time of the Civil War. The south did not see itself as a nation that binds the states but as states that bound the nation.

On the other hand, I agree that the U.S. is, indeed, a nation. By the time of the Civil War, most (outside of the south and even many southerners) saw this as a nation. In fact, in the Gettysburg Address, President Lincoln addressed this:

Quote:

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, upon this continent, A NEW NATION, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether THAT NATION, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure."



As far as nation's go, the United States of America is very young. A hundred years ago, this nation was barely a "superpower." It wasn't until the end of World War 2 (and the advent of the atomic age) that it became the world's most powerful nation.

Many things can happen prior to the Lord's return. Nations and empires can be built and fallen in short time spans.

For centuries, Great Britain was an empire that was the world's foremost military and economic power. It's influence is still felt on the world. As the old saying went, "The sun never sets on the British Empire."

Yet, today, Britain is a singular nation. While it is still strong and influential, it has shifted from the world's greatest and most influential power to no longer being an actual "superpower." Most would argue that it should be delegated just above being just another European nation (albeit with nuclear weapons).

What does time have in store for America?

We don't know. God knows. That is all that we can say with any degree of certainty. The Bible isn't entirely clear about America in terms of Bible prophecy. We merely have individuals who interpret passages (or interpret them for the rest of us).

Some time ago, I was sitting in a discussion that morphed into a theological debate. One person brought up the "TULIP" of Calvinism and was arguing for it. The other was vehemently arguing against it. After a while, both sides wanted to know what I thought. My response? "I don't care."

I thought about it later and decided that "I don't care" was a bit too jagged and inappropriate. In fact, I do care. I care quite a bit. However, I don't see enough emphasis in Scripture on this topic to stake a binding philosophical position upon it. Rather, I see men outside of the Bible interpreting Scriptural passages to reach a specific conclusion.

I suppose that the better response is both "I don't know with any degree of absolute certainty" followed by a heartfelt "I am not concerned either way." After all, my life is focused entirely upon seeking God's face. I study over the Word daily. I spend days seeking the Lord in prayer and worshiping him. Consequently, I am more focused on knowing him than declaring some doctrinal position that (at least for me) isn't entirely clear or ultimately essential from the Lord and his Word.

I feel the same way about Bible prophecy. It would be wonderful if the Lord returned today. It would be great if he returns in my lifetime. Yet, I cannot know with any degree of certainty that this will happen. In fact, despite being relatively young, I don't even know what tomorrow will bring for me.

I listened to David Wilkerson speak once about Keith Green. This is from memory because I don't remember which message it was included in. I think that it was something that I heard in a message that I was sent from Times Square Church.

David Wilkerson and Keith Green were friends and neighbors. Yet, shortly before Keith Green died, the two were involved in a sharp dispute. In a conversation, Keith Green told David Wilkerson that God had "promised," "revealed" or "told" (I cannot remember how Mr. Wilkerson said that Mr. Green phrased it) that he would live to see his grandchildren. With that, David Wilkerson rebuked him. He reminded him that you're not even promised tomorrow (let alone decades). It apparently became a heated debate. Yet, Keith Green died in a plane crash only a short time later.

When it comes to discussion of eschatology and Bible prophecy in general or specifics, I wonder if we sometimes fall into the error of "time" for which David Wilkerson described Keith Green. Keith Green died at the age of 28. He didn't live (physically) long enough to see his grandchildren. Now, I love Keith Green and listen to his music often. However, if this account is true (and I'm not sure that Mr. Wilkerson should have even shared something so personal), it shows that even pious men who love the Lord can be confused over time and God's promises.

America may very well be a part of "every nation" mentioned in the Bible. At the same time, America -- as it is -- might not even exist by that time. There is just so much that we do not know.

Now, my response would also be to say that I pray for this nation each and every day. I pray for a revival. I pray for a revival of faith in Christ in this nation. I pray that my neighbors and fellow citizens of this temporary citizenship would turn their eyes upon Jesus.

At the same time, I am keenly aware of my own ignorance of God's timing. I know the Word. I know how some people interpret certain passages as pertaining to America. I know how it is easy to generalize certain passages as including America. What I do not know is how long this nation -- less than three centuries old -- will exist. Between the "alpha" and "omega" of this world, I don't know what will happen by the time we get closer to the "omega." Instead, I focus on knowing, loving and worshiping the Alpha and Omega -- who holds all things in his power.


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Christopher

 2021/4/28 13:01Profile
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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2403


 Re: BranchinVINE

Thank you for your replies and thoughts.

/ I will bring back the captives of My people Israel; they shall build the waste cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them; they shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them. I WILL PLANT THEM IN THIER LAND, and no longer shall they be pulled up FROM THE LAND I HAVE GIVEN THEM, says the Lord your God. (Amos 9:14-15)




Full text of this prophecy:

Amos 9:11-15 (NKJV) --

11 “On that day I will raise up
The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down,
And repair its damages;
I will raise up its ruins,
And rebuild it as in the days of old;
12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom,
And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,”
Says the LORD who does this thing.
13 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD,
“When the plowman shall overtake the reaper,
And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;
The mountains shall drip with sweet wine,
And all the hills shall flow with it.
14 I will bring back the captives of My people Israel;
They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;
They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.
15 I will plant them in their land,
And no longer shall they be pulled up
From the land I have given them,”
Says the LORD your God.

James quoted this prophecy in Acts 15:13-18 –

13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me:
14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name.
15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:
16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the LORD who does all these things.’

This establishes that Amos’ prophecy relates to:

(1) The Gospel Era which began after the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus and Pentecost./

Sure it relates to the gospel era. I would not deny that. Likewise, I think that when the elect remnant of Israel have turned to Christ it will be because of the gospel of Christ and its power to transform inwardly. They will grafted into a believing body of Christ already made up of Jews and Gentiles. How does Amos's prophecy relating to the gospel era, which I agree with, change in any way the original promises made to Israel? Being back in the land again as to never be rooted up again - this is fully contained in Amos' prophecy also. How does his prophecy relating to the gospel era change this?

/(2) The New Israel that comprises both Jewish and Gentile believers (Acts. 14:27; 15:3,8,17; Rom. 9:6-18; Gal. 3:29, 4:28)./

That goes without saying. As politely as I can say it, that's not news to any premillennialist.

Where is the term "New Israel" found in the New Testament? Why would God form a new Israel when He is not ever going to be through with the old Israel." He will ultimately transform by His saving grace the elect of Israel characterized by the fact that Gentiles are now also a part of the believing commonwealth of Israel.

The believing body of Christ is now made up of Jews and Gentiles. How does that change in any way the original promises made to Israel even regarding a future land inheritance presided over by their now returned Savior?

/(3) The New Covenant which is “not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. (2 Cor. 3:6)”. Accordingly, circumcision under the law of Moses was not required (Acts 15:1, 28-29, Gal. 6:15)./

Everyone that believes that the geographical land of Israel will be occupied in the future by believing Jews believes this. It sort of baffles me why such basic 101 things are offered as if premillennialists aren't aware of them. Why did you include this? Every Christian knows this.

/It is noteworthy that it is the tabernacle of David at Mt. Zion (2 Sam. 5:7,9; 1 Chr. 15:1, 16:1) and NOT the temple of Solomon at Mt. Moriah what would be rebuilt (Amos 9:11, ACTS 15:16).

God did not allow David to build a temple, so the tabernacle of David was the place of worship for the greater part of David’s reign.

When David died, Solomon built the temple at Moriah and David’s tabernacle at Zion fell into ruin.

But God had promised that He would raise up David’s Seed (Christ) who would build a house for God’s name and God will establish the throne of His kingdom forever (2 Sam. 7:12-13)./

All this in heaven or is there an earthly aspect to this?

/Christ has pitched a heavenly tabernacle./

Yes He has pitched a heavenly tabernacle, but why is He going to return to earth? When He returns, at which physical geographical location on the earth will He set His feet on?

/The Church, which is the New Jerusalem, is called the tabernacle of God in Rev. 21:1-3, 9-10.

The church of the living God is the pillar and support of the truth. (1 Tim. 3:15).

All believers, both Jew and Gentile, are “living stones” in the spiritual house that God is building in Zion (1 Pet. 2:4-6, Eph. 2:11-22).

It is a heavenly tabernacle in heavenly Zion (Heb. 12:22-23).

It is a heavenly city that Abraham was looking for (Heb. 11:10, 16).

John 8:58 –
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."/

I see the heavenly city not so much as a far away realm of spirituality only but a city FROM heaven and not IN heaven only. Abraham and none of the patriarchs and prophets expressed their only hope as one day being safe in God's far away heaven. The coming kingdom to them was a kingdom on this earth made heavenly by the transformation that it will undergo. God promised Abraham personally that he and his descendants would posses a certain land forever and walk in it. Since Abraham knew he would eventually die, he knew his own resurrection would have to occur for this to happen. This was why He rejoiced to see Jesus' day because someone was going to have to come that would erase sin and death.

/The blessings in AMOS 11:13-14 are only a dim shadow of the “unfathomable riches of Christ” (Eph. 3:8)./

- “Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD,
“When the plowman shall overtake the reaper,

- And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;
The mountains shall drip with sweet wine,
And all the hills shall flow with it.

- I will bring back the captives of My people Israel

- They shall build the waste cities and inhabit them;

- They shall plant vineyards and drink wine from them;

- They shall also make gardens and eat fruit from them.

How does the "unfathomable riches in Christ" help me build waste cities and inhabit and live in them? How does being in Christ help me plant gardens and eat fruit from them? This type of allegorical definition of prophecy might be feasible if it didn't change entirely the meaning of Amos' original prophecy. But let's not stop at the blessings contained in verses 13-14. Let's include the final verse of the chapter:

9:15 I WILL PLANT THEM IN THEIR LAND, and no longer shall they be pulled up FROM THE LAND I HAVE GIVEN THEM, says the Lord your God.

What if Amos was not speaking allegorically? What if he literally prophesied of literal events and things? And if the body of Christ is now made up of Jews and Gentiles, which it is, how does the change the original meaning of prophecies as they were given and understood by the hearers of Amos?

Thank you again. Please see my next post - The Spiritual Vision Model versus the New Creation Model. I believe, along with a growing rejection of allegorical prophetical interpretation that many are beginning to realize that when one says a heavenly country etc., it does not mean in heaven only but will have a largely earthly aspect to it also. Earth by the power of God. Heaven is coming here. This in my opinion, is much more closer to the biblical Hebrew world view than the earthly is inferior model that a large part of modern Christianity follows.

More later. Thank you again good bro. Comments welcome.






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David Winter

 2021/4/29 19:35Profile
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 Re: Two Models of Eternal Life - the Spiritual Vision Model vs the New Creation Model

In the Hebrew biblical world view, the land and the earth were not an inferior sphere just to one day be delivered from into an entirely spiritual realm and existence (the Spiritual Vision Model). The coming kingdom of God under the prophesied Savior who was to come was to have a very large and central earthly aspect to it (the New Creation Model). Many interpreters of prophecy have fixed their eyes on the heavenly only. There is a growing trend away from this type of interpretation.

Likewise and in keeping, a future redeemed Israel living in an EARTHLY LAND would not be them living in an early and inferior realm and existence because, in the biblical view, physical creation, including earth and land, is not inferior.

The Spirituality of Materiality in the Old Testament

Not only is the OT revelation a transcript of the truth God communicated through a Hebrew prism, but also it reveals visceral earthiness and admiration of the imminent creation that is in confluence with transcendent spirituality reaching to God's glorious throne in heaven. As George Eldon Ladd explained:

"Hebrew thought saw an essential unity between man and nature. The prophets do not think of earth as merely the indifferent theater om which a man carries out his normal task but as the expression of the divine glory. The Old Testament nowhere holds forth the hope of a bodiless, non-material, purely “spiritual” redemption as did Greek thought. The earth is the divinely ordained scene of human existence. Furthermore, the earth has been involved in the evils which sin has incurred. There is an interrelation of nature with the moral life of man; therefore the earth must also share in God's final redemption....The fact that man is a physical creature is not the measure of his sinfulness and therefore a state from which he must be delivered. Rather, the acceptance of his creaturehood and the confession of complete and utter dependence upon the Creator God are essential to man's true existence....Salvation for man does not mean deliverance from creaturehood, for it is not an evil thing but an essential and permanent element of man's true being. Salvation does not mean escape from bodily, creaturely existence. On the contrary, ultimate redemption will mean the redemption of the whole man. For this reason, the resurrection of the body is an integral part of the biblical hope."

(G. E. Ladd, The Presence of the Future (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1974). 59-60; also pp.63-64.)

Similarly, from a Hebrew Christian perspective, Baruch Maoz commented:

"It is true that redemption from sin is not to be conceived of in terms that are primarily material. On this point the New Testament is as clear as the Old, though much more emphatic. But salvation is not to be thought of as exclusively spiritual and moral, as if Israel's living in the land had no moral implications! The gospel message is replete with appreciation for the material realm. The New Testament makes it quite clear that the material is the arena in which ultimate salvation is to take place (Rom 8:18-25). thus reconfirming Old Testament expectation. Even our bodies are to be redeemed."

(B Maoz, “People, land and Torah: A Jewish Christian perspective,” in The Land of Promise (ed. P. Johnston and P. Walker; Downer's Grove, Ill.; InterVarsity, 2000), 196.)

The Redemption of Spirituality and Materiality

"In rejecting the Platonic/Augustinian eschatological dichtomy between inferior, earthly materiality and superior, heavenly spirituality, the preferred alternative of both earthly materialty and heavenly spirituality in holy union should be carefully understood. Craig Blaising describes this essential distinction in the millennial debate in a manner that is well worth consideration at this juncture. He speaks of "Two Models of Eternal Life," the "Spiritual Vision Model," which is the presupposition or "preunderstanding" of amillennialism, and the "New Creation Model," which is the presupposition of premillennialism. The Spiritual Vision Model, understands the "final state of the resurrected" as being in heaven. Advocates of this view base it not only on 'biblical themes,
but also on cultural ideas common to the classical philosophical tradition. That tradition has contributed to the spiritual vision model in three basic convictions: (1) a basic contrast between spirit and matter; (2) an identification of spirit with mind or intellect; and (3) a belief that eternal perfection entails the absence of change. Central to all three of these is the classical tradition's notion of an ontological hierarchy in which spirit is located at the top of a descending order of being. Elemental matter occupies the lowest place. In the spiritual vision of eternity, heaven is the highest level of ontological reality. It is the realm of spirit as opposed to base matter. This is the destiny of the saved, who will exist in that non earthly, spiritual place as spiritual beings engaged eternally in spiritual activity....Following the classical tradition's identification of spirit with mind or intellect, the spiritual model views eternal life primarily as cognitive, meditative, or contemplative. With this point of emphasis, the place or realm of eternal life is really a secondary or inconsequential matter. In its essential reality, eternal life is a state of knowing [God]."

On the other hand, the "New Creation Model"

"draws on biblical texts that speak of a future everlasting kingdom, of a new earth and the renewal of life on it, of bodily resurrection (especially of the nature of Christ's resurrection body), of social and even political concourse among the redeemed. The new creation model expects that the ontological order and scope of eternal life is essentially continuous with that of present earthly life except for the absence of sin and death. Eternal life for redeemed human beings will be an embodied life on earth (whether the present earth or a wholly new earth), set within a cosmic structure such as we have presently. It is not a timeless, static existence but rather an unending sequence of life and lived experiences. It does not reject physicality or materiality, but affirms them as essential both to a holistic anthropology and to the biblical idea of a redeemed creation."

In other words concerning this more biblical perspective, materiality is not ultimately to be transcended, but rather transformed. Such a transformation is to be the rebirth that ushers in "the Messianic age [ palingenesia, "regeneration"], when the Son of Man sits on His glorious throne...judging the 12 tribes of Israel" (Matt 19:28). Then there will be a "new heaven and a new earth" (Isa 65:17, 66:22), that is, a spiritually renewed earth and cosmic order. Through the triumph of sovereign grace, both human and nonhuman aspects of creation, animate and inanimate, will be greatly blessed beyond the state of things prior to the transgression of Adam and Eve.

(Future Israel - Why Christian Anti-Judaism Must Be Challenged - Horner, B&H Academic, Nashville, TN, p 213-214)


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David Winter

 2021/4/29 19:46Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5955
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 Re:

//Future Israel - Why Christian Anti-Judaism Must Be Challenged - Horner, B&H Academic, Nashville, TN, p 213-214)//

A true Christian is not against Jewish people, nor any race of people.

But even God is against Judaism, as he is against Muhammadism and Hinduism and Shintoism and every other ism that does center on Jesus Christ.

Do you think in the New Creation that Jews will be offering animal sacrifices in a temple?


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Todd

 2021/4/30 6:56Profile
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Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 902
Australia

 Re: David (docs)


Quote:
Being back in the land again as to never be rooted up again …………



I assume you mean the land on this old earth. If they would never be rooted up again, wouldn’t they be destroyed with the earth when it is burnt up?

2 Pet. 3:10 –
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.


Quote:
…………the original promises made to Israel



Which scripture are you referring to?

Thanks.


More later.


Blessings



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Jade

 2021/4/30 11:17Profile
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 Re:

We have been going around in circles for decades discussing this topic.
But I still want to add some basic important scriptures.

4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
If it is One Body (the Bride) plus...-that is a false Gospel

"The believing body of Christ is now made up of Jews and Gentiles. How does that change in any way the original promises made to Israel even regarding a future land inheritance presided over by their now returned Savior?"
The original promises were made to Abraham and His seed (Christ) NOT to the nation of Israel.

"Israel" started with Jacob, had about 12 tribes (some half tribes)It fell apart soon after King David

"A true Christian is not against Jewish people, nor any race of people."
I have a Jewish name and ancestors. I'm not against myself !

But through Christ I'm a new creation, part of One Body.
As a believer I'm no longer Jew or Greek or Gentile.
After Paul was converted Christ and the Gospel became everything to him.

May this one day be true for all of us !

Blessings
Markus
Edit: removed some comments

 2021/4/30 21:34Profile





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