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 America, the superpower

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu2-JIFgaDw

 2021/4/18 4:40Profile
TMK
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 Re: America, the superpower

Do you really think America is mentioned in the Bible?


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Todd

 2021/4/18 13:03Profile
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 Re:

The word America is not mentioned in the bible. What they are saying is America will be a part of 'All the nations' that will battle against Jerusalem', in the fulfillment of Zechariah 14.

 2021/4/18 17:32Profile
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 Re:

They also believe that an important reason why America rose to superpower is for the fulfillment of God's intent to restore the land of Israel to the Jews having Jerusalem as its capital.

 2021/4/18 19:23Profile
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 Re:

I watched parts, but not all of the video. Who are “they?” Do “they” represent some group or church?

ADD: I would strongly recommend reading Matthew Henry’s commentary of Zech. 14.


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Todd

 2021/4/18 20:47Profile
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 Re:


Quote:
They also believe that an important reason why America rose to superpower is for the fulfillment of God's intent to restore the land of Israel to the Jews having Jerusalem as its capital.




OR, it could be that God raised up and prospered the nations that He used to preach the gospel worldwide.

For example, in the days when it was said that the sun never set on the British Empire, the United Kingdom sent out missionaries far and wide, to countries both within and outside its empire, from Africa (David Livingstone, various missionary societies, etc.) to India (William Carey, various missionary societies, etc.) to China (Hudson Taylor and the China Inland Mission, various missionary societies, etc.) and elsewhere.

The United States was greatly involved in worldwide evangelisation in the last century.

For example, Billy Graham hosted “crusades”, evangelistic campaigns that ran from 1947 until his retirement in 2005. He preached to live audiences of 210 million people in more than 185 countries and territories. As of 2008, his estimated lifetime audience, including radio and television broadcasts, topped 2.2 billion.
(Source: Wikipedia).


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Jade

 2021/4/19 1:44Profile
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 Re:

Amir Tsarfati and Jan Markell are messianic jews, Barry Stagner is a senior pastor and speaker (christian views) in national radio and internet broadcast. I stumbled upon Amir while viewing John MacArthur in youtube. A refresher and challenging, that's what I can say about them.

@Bv

I guess they didn't miss that, 'among the important reasons' why the Lord raised America as a very powerful and rich nation. But then, consider seriously what John MacArthur believe, it maybe too late for America now. All must be ready for the new order of state of affairs.

 2021/4/19 19:24Profile
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 Re:


If you were born in England 150 years ago you would be saying the same things about England, that God raised her up etc and have pride in it, but now look at England, let us adjust our minds that kings and nations come and go, they are righteous for a time and wane away.

The only thing that does not stop being righteous and useful to God is the actual Kingdom of God of which we are all a part of by the Blood of Jesus Christ.

Let us pray for America's usefulness to the kingdom but in the end God has not requirement to pro-long a nations prosperity for any reason. We could argue in the end prosperity can become a curse.

Currently the amount of false gospels being exported from america is staggering, it is defiling the earth. God will have to stop it.


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 2021/4/20 7:14Profile
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Gal. 4:26 –
But THE JERUSALEM ABOVE is free; she is our mother.

Heb. 12:22-24 –
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, THE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.

Col. 3:1-2 –
Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
Set your minds on the things that are above, not on the things that are on earth.

Phil. 3:20-21 –
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.


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Jade

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 Re: Matthew Henry and Allegorization

/ADD: I would strongly recommend reading Matthew Henry’s commentary of Zech. 14./

I did some of that reading in his commentary and was somewhat surprised and intrigued by what I read.

14:4-5
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, from east to west, making a very large valley; half of the mountain shall move toward the north and half of it toward the south.

14:5
Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, for the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You.

Matthew Henry comments:

These verses are dark and hard to be understood; but divers good expositors take this to be the meaning of them. [1.] God will carefully inspect Jerusalem, even then when the enemies of it are laying it waste: His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, whence he may take a full view of the city and temple, (Mk. 13:3). When the refiner puts his gold into the furnace he stands by it, and has his eye upon it, to see that it receive no damage; so when Jerusalem, God’s gold, is to be refined, he will have the oversight of it. He will stand by upon the mount of Olives; this was literally fulfilled when our Lord Jesus was often upon this mountain, especially when thence he ascended up into heaven, (Acts. 1:12). It was the last place on which his feet stood on this earth, the place from which he took rise. [2.] The partition-wall between Jews and Gentiles shall be taken away. The mountains about Jerusalem, and particularly this, signified it to be an enclosure, and that it stood in the way of those who would approach to it. Between the Gentiles and Jerusalem this mountain of Bether, of division, stood, (Cant. 2:17). But by the destruction of Jerusalem this mountain shall be made to cleave in the midst, and so the Jewish pale shall be taken down, and the church laid in common with the Gentiles, who were made one with the Jews by the breaking down of this middle wall of partition, (Eph. 2:14). Who art thou, O great mountain? And a great mountain the ceremonial law was in the way of the Jews’ conversion, which, one would think, could never have been got over; yet before Christ and his gospel it was made plain. This mountain departs, this hill removes, but the covenant of peace cannot be broken; for peace is still preached to him that is afar off and to those that are nigh. [3.] A new and living way shall be opened to the new Jerusalem, both to see it and to come into it. The mountain being divided, one-half towards the north and the other half towards the south, there shall be a very great valley, that is, a broad way of communication opened between Jerusalem and the Gentile world, by which the Gentiles shall have free admission into the gospel-Jerusalem, and the word of the Lord, that goes forth from Jerusalem, shall have a free course into the Gentile world. Thus the way of the Lord is prepared, for every mountain and hill shall be brought low, and plain and pleasant valleys shall come in the room of them, (Isa. 40:4). [4.] Those of the Jews that believe shall come in, and join themselves to the Gentiles, incorporate with them in the gospel-church: You shall flee to the valley of the mountains, that valley that is opened between the divided halves of the mount of Olives; they shall hasten into the church with the Gentiles, as formerly the Gentiles with them,

- His feet shall stand upon the Mount of Olives – this was literally fulfilled when Jesus Himself stood upon the Mount of Olives during His lifetime?

What if in fact, it is speaking of the day when Christ returns and His feet shall stand in that Day upon the Mount of Olives?

- The splitting of the mountain was meant to show that the middle wall of partition between Jew and Gentile was split and done away with?

What if it was meant to prophesy of the time when the mount will actually be physically split at the return of Christ?

- The mountain being divided, half towards the north and the other half towards the south, there shall be a very great valley, that is, a broad way of communication opened between Jerusalem and the Gentile world, by which the Gentiles shall have free admission into the gospel-Jerusalem, and the word of the Lord, that goes forth from Jerusalem, shall have a free course into the Gentile world.

What if the valley being spoken of is just simply the literal valley that will lie between the two halves of the mountain now physically split?

14:10-11
10 All the land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be raiised up and inhabited in her place from Benjamin's Gate to the place of the First Gate and the Corber Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's winepresses.

11 The people shall dwell in it; and no longer shall there be utter destruction, but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

Matthew Henry comments:

Some think this denotes particular favor to the people of the Jews, and points at their conversion and restoration in the latter days; but it is rather to be understood figuratively of the church, typified by Judah and Jerusalem, and it signifies the abundant graces with which the church shall be crowned, and the fruitfulness of its members, and the vast numbers of them. (1.) The church shall be like a fruitful country, abounding in all the rich products of the soil. The whole land of Judea, which is naturally uneven and hilly, shall be turned as a plain; it shall become a smooth level valley, from Geba, or Gibeah, its utmost border north, to Rimmon, which lay south of Jerusalem and was the utmost southern limit of Judea. The gospel of Christ, where it comes in its power, levels the ground; mountains and hills are brought low by it, that the Lord alone may be exalted. (2.) It shall be like a populous city. As the holy land shall be leveled, so the holy city shall be peopled, shall be rebuilt and replenished. Jerusalem shall be lifted up out of its low estate, shall be raised out of its ruins; when the land is turned as a plain, and not only the mount of Olives removed (v.  4), but other mountains too, then Jerusalem shall be lifted up, that is, shall appear the more conspicuous; she shall be inhabited in her place, even in Jerusalem, ch.  12:6 . The whole city shall be inhabited in the utmost extent of it, and no part of it left to lie waste. The utmost limits of it are here mentioned, between which there shall be no ground lost, but all built upon, from Benjamin’s-gate north-east to the corner-gate north-west, and from the tower of Hananeel in the south to the king’s wine-presses in the north; when the churches of Christ in all places are replenished with great numbers of holy, humble, serious Christians, and many such are daily added to it, then this promise is fulfilled. (3.) This country and this city shall both be safe, both the meat in the country and the mouths in the city: Those that dwell in it shall dwell securely, and there shall be none to make them afraid; there shall be no more of that utter destruction that has laid both town and country waste, no more anathema (as some read it), no more cutting off, no more curse, or separation from God to evil, no more such desolating judgments as you have been groaning under, but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited; there shall be no danger, nor any apprehension of it; neither shall its friends be fearful to disquiet themselves nor its enemies formidable to disquiet them. That promise of Christ explains this—that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church; and so do the holy security and serenity of mind which believers enjoy in relying on the divine protection.

- Some think this denotes particular favor to the people of the Jews, and points at their conversion and restoration in the latter days; but it is rather to be understood figuratively of the gospel-church, typified by Judah and Jerusalem, and it signifies the abundant graces with which the church shall be crowned, and the fruitfulness of its members, and the vast numbers of them. The church shall be like a fruitful country, abounding in all the rich products of the soil.

Did Matthew Henry believe that the Jews would be converted and restored in the latter days?

What if, in keeping with the prophet Zechariah's original intent, the prophecy in these verses does indeed refer to a literal Judah and a literal Jerusalem? A last century Messianic Jew who was a Old Testament scholar asked, "If Judah and Jerusalem actually refer to the church in Old Testament prophecy, then what then does Israel refer to? If Israel refers to the church when mentioned in prophecy, then what does Judah refer to?"

Where does the allegorization end? Was Zechariah prophesying in purely allegorical terms of which the fulfillment would go so far so far as to change what is the common sense logical meaning of what he prophesied and that which he intended for his hearers to understand?

- Jerusalem shall be lifted up out of its low estate, shall be raised out of its ruins; when the land is turned as a plain, and not only the mount of Olives removed (v.4), but other mountains too, then Jerusalem shall be lifted up, that is, shall appear the more conspicuous; she shall be inhabited in her place, even in Jerusalem, (ch. 12:6). The whole city shall be inhabited in the utmost extent of it, and no part of it left to lie waste. The utmost limits of it are here mentioned, between which there shall be no ground lost, but all built upon, from Benjamin’s-gate north-east to the corner-gate north-west, and from the tower of Hananeel in the south to the king’s wine-presses in the north; when the churches of Christ in all places are replenished with great numbers of holy, humble, serious Christians, and many such are daily added to it, then this promise is fulfilled. (3.) This country and this city shall both be safe, both the meat in the country and the mouths in the city: Those that dwell in it shall dwell securely, and there shall be none to make them afraid; there shall be no more of that utter destruction that has laid both town and country waste, no more anathema (as some read it), no more cutting off, no more curse, or separation from God to evil, no more such desolating judgments as you have been groaning under, but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited; there shall be no danger, nor any apprehension of it; neither shall its friends be fearful to disquiet themselves nor its enemies formidable to disquiet them. That promise of Christ explains this—that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church; and so do the holy security and serenity of mind which believers enjoy in relying on the divine protection.

What if Zechariah was in truth prophesying of Israel and Jerusalem in that day and not the church as we now know it?

TMK, do you really think Matthew Henry is explaining correctly the meaning of Zechariah 14?

There is a growing trend away from this type of allegorical hermeneutics, however well meaning it was meant but still followed which many see as non comprehensive and non consistent principles of prophetic interpretation.





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 2021/4/21 15:05Profile





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