SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Evan Roberts Quote
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Miracles that follow the plow : Pastor James Coates Church Shut Down and Fenced

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 )
PosterThread
NeedHim2018
Member



Joined: 2018/10/6
Posts: 29


 Re:

I actually live in Edmonton Alberta. I feel badly for Pastor James Coates and for the people who attend his church. I love and appreciate them as brothers and sisters in Christ. They are a part of the same denomination which my church is a part of.

I also have to say that in love I can't agree with the approach his church has taken towards COVID, and to protecting the health of people in the congregation, and of the public.

To me, the government asking church attenders to wear masks and social distance are reasonable requests, based on the circumstances. And for me the Bible tells us to obey authorities, unless there are good reason not to.

Since I believe there are good medical reasons for wearing masks and social distancing, as an appropriate measure to deal with this virus, I can't see good reasons not to follow these instructions. As far as health restrictions that have been imposed within Alberta, from my perspective, in general our churches have been allowed to operate at a higher capacity than have most institutions in the province.

So again, I love James Coates and have been praying for him, his family and his church. But I also feel there would have been better ways for his church to handle this whole matter.

John

 2021/4/8 19:37Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1598
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Todd

Ha yes indeed we must eat but it wasn’t just grocery stores or even hardware stores it was a host of businesses deemed “essential” like the CBD dispensaries and “special” restaurants etc... As well as certain Mosques that were allowed to worship... and actually brother James’ Church was and did abide by all the government prerequisites while in church -

(For me) this is no different than the 1st century Jews in cahoots with Roman government restricting the worship of early Christians... there can always be a “reason” given when needed to apply restrictions as I’m sure they used social unrest or something of the like to garner compliance from Rome to enforce the restrictions.

As for your hypothetical scenario,... in my mind each “godly” church leader would have to be obedient to Holy Spirit and walk in the light as He is in the light.

Again (for me) when we see our elected officials go out to restaurants and even host parties with pictures and footage of them in attendance without masks or social distancing all while locking down their constituents from basic family gatherings then I’m gonna reject their premise for doing so -
The facts are that in San Francisco alone the deaths from lockdowns exceeded covid deaths 10-1 from suicide, drug overdoses, domestic violence, etc... so they don’t “really care” about the population but about power 🤷🏽‍♂️

In any case I love you very much as my brother in Christ and just was surprised that you take the position “they brought it on themselves” (as this it’s justified) because I hope that you don’t feel that way about the early church., which again (for me) the similarities are unmistakable.


_________________
Fletcher

 2021/4/8 20:21Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5916
NC, USA

 Re:

Perhaps I need to think about this matter further. Like I said I don’t disagree with your sentiments and agree with all of them.

I just struggle with the concept of purposefully putting those you shepherd in danger, regardless what our hypocritical politicians do.


_________________
Todd

 2021/4/8 20:36Profile
SHMILY
Member



Joined: 2009/12/13
Posts: 202
Northern Idaho

 Re:

Brother Todd

Here is the link to the thread when Pastor Coats was first arrested. In it Greg has copied Grace Life Church's statement regarding their stance. Also the link for Pastor Coats last sermon before he was arrested was in the first post of the thread. In it he explains his position as he sees it Biblically.

If you have not already seen them I think they may be helpful for you to understand. You may agree or you may disagree but you will have more information.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=63878&forum=48

 2021/4/9 2:14Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5916
NC, USA

 Re:

Thank you shmily. I will definitely take a closer look.


_________________
Todd

 2021/4/9 7:25Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1718
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

TMK said: "Didn’t the church bring this on themselves? Didn’t they know they would be shut down if they did not comply? It’s not like they weren’t warned. I guess I find it a tad hard to feel too badly for them because I think they were engaged in an act of civil disobedience and weighed the cost of doing so. Perhaps God will use this closure to His benefit, and theirs. I suspect He will."

Pastor Coates said this in February. They weighed the cost. I don't know that they are feeling like they can't worship at all --- but they are absolutely being punished for worshipping together. (There are at least 2 mosques in Alberta that have had zero interference from the province and have packed worshippers en masse. There is video of buses rolling in full of worshippers. And, I say, that's as it should be --- they certainly shouldn't be mistreated, either.)

It is right and proper for them to gather and "make noise" about their plight. But, you're right and you agree with their pastor that they are not to be pitied.

The bit of video that I've seen of Pastor Coates -- a very young man, indeed -- is eye-opening. He's making no excuses, he's asking for no exceptions. Rather, he is simply calling out the truth: that Jesus says "gather", so they gather, and if the state chooses to restrict that and then punish for crossing the lines of restriction then he's saying they've overstepped the bounds of proper government. He's right on every score.

I am actually a bit enthused by their message and the simple humility of "we must obey God and we are willing to pay the cost". I'm also enthused by their prophetic witness to the government that their jurisdiction over the church of Christ ends when they interfere with obedience to the instruction to gather.


_________________
Tim

 2021/4/9 14:52Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5916
NC, USA

 Re:

Surely there is some news or discussion somewhere as to why mosques are allowed to be open? Is the government literally going after Christian churches but not mosques or is that fake news?


_________________
Todd

 2021/4/9 15:06Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5916
NC, USA

 Re:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/canada/article-mosque-synagogue-leaders-in-alberta-call-on-gracelife-church-to-follow/


_________________
Todd

 2021/4/9 15:07Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1598
Dothan, Alabama

 Re: brother Todd

Here’s the best (most credible) current report I could source for you,... please consider the sincerity of their plight-

https://www.dailywire.com/news/exclusive-pastor-and-lawyer-defiant-after-canadian-police-raid-barricade-church-at-dawn


_________________
Fletcher

 2021/4/10 9:17Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 901
Pineville, LA

 Re:

Believe it or not, persecution against Christians is a real thing. The entire world is against Christ--either openly or in private. The world hates us--Jesus said this would happen.

It should not surprise us that a Church simply attempting to do what the Bible says is going to run afoul with worldly governments.

Of course, no matter how you feel about COVID, those people who are meeting at that church are doing so based upon their own will and volition. No one is being forced to be there. If they are not masking and social distancing, then they are doing so willingly. The government's sphere of authority has no jurisdiction in matters regarding the churches (they cannot legislate when/how/to what extent a church carries out its God-given authority and duty). Of course, I would not suggest that people can blatantly do evil in these areas and get away with it. Yet, there is nothing in the Bible that suggests that a Christian is obligated to do every ever loving thing the government mandates. There are some things they should do, certainly--they are commanded in Scripture. But there are some things they shouldn't do--some of these things fall along lines of support (should Christians support freedom of speech as used to defend the porn industry?), some of them fall along lines of participation (should Christians participate in prenuptual agreements just because they are allowed or should they sue a brother before unbelievers just because it is legally allowed?), and some fall along lines of downright sin (should Christians get abortions?).

No one here believes in unilateral submission to the government. Not a single soul here. So it is a straw man argument to use that as the sole means of proving the necessity of following COVID restrictions. There would be a coinciding principle in the Scriptures that led us in that direction. Loving your brother? Is that the principle? No. You ever fed your brother fatty foods? Then you're risking killing them with a heart attack. Was that their decision? So is showing up to church, not wearing a mask, or social distancing.

COVID has made everyone lose their minds. Its ridiculous to be perfectly honest.

You want to wear a mask, social distance, or not show up to church? Do so at your own volition and will--you answer to God for those things, whether they were for good or for ill. If you believe in your heart that wearing a mask and social distancing is right for you, do it. Don't violate your conscience. Do it and do it with a smile under that mask! But don't make me do it, because I would also have to violate my conscience to do so on a continual basis. If I waive my rights, it will be in conisderation of circumstances, the weakness of other brethren, etc. But no one is going to come and tell me that I must do any of those things. They have no authority or grounds to do so, save ignorance or willfull disobedience to the clear commands of Scripture regarding these types of matters. And to extend the same grace I desire--I would not shame nor look down on a brother for wearing a mask or not wanting to hug.

But frankly, I would rather die a thousand gruelling deaths and have loved and been loved by the brethren than to live a single day away from them.

 2021/4/11 16:36Profile





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy