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 Re: We've inherited Adam's sin nature & spiritual 'death'.

If I could share my heart here ...

When I first signed on here, I said I knew some men and woman, who put themselves in the line of fire, as much as Missionaries do.

They are those Apologetic & Discernment Ministry Saints, who have saved as many from the Apostasy, as a missionary could save heathens. And have gotten as many death threats, etc., etc., as many missionaries have gotten, and from 'Christians'.

They deserve our Respect !!!

And the day we throw out Apologetics & Discernment ministries, that's the day that God will no longer Bless us.

If you don't see a need for these type Ministries, then you have a major doctrinal problem or are just Biblically illiterate.

I'm sorry if I sound upset, I mean no harm to any one individual on this thread, but on us as a whole. On us (the Church) as a whole.

We've neglected being Bereans, in order to study what "men say [u]about[/u] the Word, rather then what the WORD has to say, Itself."

We are commanded to keep our Doctrine pure, and not "let's just get along".

Try as I have (and please believe me, I earnestly have), I cannot find this, "get-along without sound doctrine" teaching anywhere in The Word of God.

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable [u]for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness[/u]" 2Ti 3:16

Some don't like the "reproof, correction or instruction" parts, so they forbid the posting of Scriptures like this, but this is just one out of many, that tell us, if we don't have sound "teaching" (that's all that "Doctrine" means in Greek.), then we will definitely be deceived and it means we don't "Love the Truth", Because JESUS is the WORD made FLESH !

We can't know the Jesus of the Bible, unless we know Jesus 'from' the Bible.

~ Brother Logic,
as a sister in the Lord ... may I say, that you knew what you were trying to say, and may probably be a good speaker and all, but I know someone like you, who was teaching on the radio and all .... a very good teacher ... BUT, :-),he couldn't write or spell too well.
So he kept his ministry to speaking. :)
He's an apologist too.

I'm not telling you to do that ... but Proof-read well, (Boy - do I have to do that) and use a Spell Checker first.
Maybe write your post off line on a Word program or something, and check it several times. (Like I have to Most of the times. Old age, ya know ?)

I 'thought' I understood, where you were going with your first post, and agree, because that it is how our AOG professors taught us.

But, your definition, or how you wrote about 'death', in the first post, could easily lead folks to think you just meant 'soul death' (the no hell teaching).

Another thing, if I could, if you always make your posts mostly Scripture, with as little comment as you can beneath each verse ... God's Word Proves Itself and/or Stands on It's Own.

Joh 7:17 If any man [u]will do his will[/u], he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Once you post His Word, then the responsibility is out of your hands. His Word, as you know, does not go out void ... and that's why most folks don't read their Bibles much, because inside they know, that whatever they read, they'll be held accountable for.

But, they'll be just as accountable, for Not Knowing their Bible.

Some verses you could have used were ....

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

It looked like Compton tried to give you a fair shake, and you being basically new here, should have been given at least a 'hand-shake' first, before being judged.
How easy we can get into the pack mentality, without really reading what someone is trying to say. (that did it, here comes tears.)

Anyhow, of those great men & woman I talked about up on top of this post ... here are some of the best there is , read the names. .

I pray to God, that we develop a HUNGER FOR THE WORD [u]ITSELF[/u].

I can't shake that burden for the life of me, because all I hear now, wherever I go, is,
"well, so & so wrote".

God Help us. Help us to care more about what GOD Himself wrote.

[u]Thanks for putting up with me.[/u]

Love !


1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
1Co 12:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honorable, upon these we bestow more abundant honor; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. (plug :)

 2005/8/2 6:58

Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


Anyhow, of those great men & woman I talked about up on top of this post ... here are some of the best there is , read the names. .

I am so glad to see you into Apologetics & Discernment ministries. The link you gave here Has my pastors name, Bill Randles. And Jacob Prasch come to my church often. Please visit our web page

but Proof-read well, (Boy - do I have to do that) and use a Spell Checker first.

I do as much as posible, but when I get a though, I dont want to loose it by thinking about spell checking. I will try to use word then Copy & paste.

Another thing, if I could, if you always make your posts mostly Scripture, with as little comment as you can beneath each verse ... God's Word Proves Itself and/or Stands on It's Own.

I try do back everything I say with Scripture, and keep my own words to a minimum as I can.

Thanks for putting up with me.

I thank you all, you all have chalenged me so that I could bring my thoughts together and have refine my understanding of what I am trying to show you all. I am just about finished so that I can explain myself thoroughly with this topic and you all will come to an understanding. It should be my next post.

I hope I made sence in this because I am very tired right now

 2005/8/2 16:56Profile

Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791

 Re: Life or death, Heaven or hell

Sin only brings death: Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ezekiel 18:4 ...: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Now where in the Bible does sin relate to hell or even have them in the same verse.
It's eather sin & death, or death & hell.

The death is both spiritual and physical. You are spiritualy dead already, and you will die physicaly.
The dead who do not have life in Christ Jesus can only go to hell Because they are still spiritualy dead and where not made alive unto God through Jesus the Christ.

Here are some veses that have the Book of Life

Rev. 6:8 A: And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him...
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The dead naturaly sin so they will worship the beast.
They are not in the Book of Life because they are dead spiritualy.

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life , and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

There is only life found in Christ because He is the Living God of life:
Mathew 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living .
Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more : for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection
Luke 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him .

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death .
1Corinth. 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

But God will only bring the living to Heavan. He has the book of life and who ever is not spiritualy dead, but is alive in Christ will be written in it.

Philippians 4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life .
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his
name before my Father, and before his angels.

You must go to hell only for being spritualy dead, and not because of your sinnes.

 2005/8/3 17:04Profile

Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 233
Lancashire, England


what about the word 'damnation'?

just a thought


 2005/8/3 17:16Profile

Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


what about the word 'damnation'?

From the root - Damn
All it means is doomed
1. To pronounce an adverse judgment upon. See Synonyms at condemn.
2. To bring about the failure of; ruin.
3.To condemn as harmful, illegal, or immoral: a cleric who damned gambling and strong drink.
4.To condemn to everlasting punishment or a similar fate; doom.
5.To swear at.

We are damned to hell if we don't repent.
When you accept That sacrifise, along with His resurrection, then you are repenting.
The very act of repentance is [u]turning away from sin and toward God, and in faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.[/u]
Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

 2005/8/3 17:35Profile


Hi Logic, I am very familiar with Bill Randles and the whole ACT team. That is exactly why I put this above link in my post.

I read the whole thread and read that you attend his Church, and had anyone researched Bill, they would have known where you were coming from.

But you write the way my apologist friend does.
And Sincerely, NO Offense intended here. Most of us do this.
We Think that everyone understands, 'exactly' what we're saying, but that's impossible sometimes.

The point or problem is, "you" know what you are saying,(and so would your Pastor) and when you read it, you know what you are reading ... but those not familiar with Soteriology, in this particular case, can not know 'precisely' what you're saying.
You have to clarify a lot more.

This isn't the CARM forum or some other like it.

Read your posts first, if you can, with the eyes and understanding you had, 'before' you came to these understandings. Write them as if, no one had ever heard these things before. Don't just blurt them out as facts ... even if they may be.

Do you know what I'm trying to say ? We all have to know our surroundings, and not start a thread, with such brief declarations, without making it 'very' understandable to everyone, at every stage of growth, from new-born in Christ on up and every level of understanding, etc..

As someone else suggested, come on to the other threads with all of us, and join in also.

I'd love to hear what else you've gleaned from being at his Church.
You're fortunate to be there. His research is extensive, and I'm sure you could share some of that with us also.

God Bless and be a blessing.


 2005/8/3 23:59

Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791

 Re: Lost in translation

I tend to think in concepts and contrasts, not in words. So as I try to look for words that best suit my thoughts, I loose a lot of what I need to say. I usually go strait to the point and am blunt in my explanations without illustrations.

The conversation in this thread is refining my thoughts on this whole topic, so I am actually better explaining my point by adding to it as I go, but keeping my main point intact.

My whole point is become “eternal life or eternal death.”

You are born with eternal death and therefor we need eternal life through Christ Jesus.

1Corinth. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
We need to be changed, not only forgiven of our sins. And the Law is used to show us that as I explained earlier.

Romans 6:23 for the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
John 3:15 that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Sin and death Or Eternal Life.
sin – death, death – sin, it is an endless cycle that no one can escape accept through Jesus.
You are dead which is why you sin, or death brings corruption, which is sin, and if you sin, you will die.
The only escape is accepting Jesus sacrifice on the cross along with His resrection.

Take the Mystery of Godliness and the mystery of iniquity…
1Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the Mystery of Godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The Mystery of Godliness is explained in short as God appeared in human flesh and remains in the flesh. To denie this is the spirit of anti-christ.

Paul does not define the Mystery of Iniquity, though it could be 3 to 4 verses above the mention of it...
2Thes. 2:4 Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

To sum it up - Man acting as god, and thinking he is a god, which is from “The Lie” from the beginning.

This Mystery of Iniquity should also conclude to the denial that Christ came in the flesh which is indeed the denial Mystery of Godliness. The Mystery of Godliness opposes the Mystery of Iniquity. Scripture would confirm this precise definition.

Mystery of Godliness is seen also in Romans 8:3, 4 for what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Philippians 2:5-9 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
:6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

The acceptance of the Mystery of Godliness will bring you to Eternal life. The denial of these, which is Mystery of Iniquity, will lead you to hell.

 2005/8/4 12:37Profile

Joined: 2004/2/8
Posts: 199
Worthing UK


Brother,I have read your posts and see where you are comming from...Ellie I feel is slightly over reacting :-) Lets remember its hard to understand tone of voice or feeling in this written way that we use.
This is a market place of discussion, and a good one at that!There has been many who have in the past tried to take things way off balance I think Logic is trying not to be disruptive.This site is wonderful lets keep it going :-)

derek Eyre

 2005/8/4 19:09Profile


This site is wonderful lets keep it going :-)

Great post Delboy... Amen & yep, you're right.

 2005/8/5 1:12

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