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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : You don't go to hell becaus of sin!

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TiltedHalo
Member



Joined: 2005/7/18
Posts: 57
Brooklyn, USA

 Re:

Don't throw your pearls to the pigs, they will just trample all over them. Jesus never argued either Kingdom, He proclaimed & kept it moving. Points were made on both ends, and as Ellie stated, it is viable to debate on mans doctrine, but not the Word of God, that is everlasting & 110% truth. And i pray you find it sir.

God Bless


_________________
Arnaldo Santiago, Jnr.

 2005/7/23 13:55Profile









 Re: You don't go to hell becaus of sin!

Logic said

Quote:
A person doesn't goes to hell because of sin, He dies because of it, For the wages of sin is death; and if he dies in his sin, then he will go to hell.

Jesus died on the cross for all people and therefor all peoples' sins, even the people who will reject His sacrifice. But that is why they go to hell, not because of sin.

Perhaps this line of scripture, in which Jesus Himself is speaking, defines sin absolutely such that there is no room for manoeuvre for any of us, as sermonindex said.

John 16
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 [u]Of sin, because they believe not on me[/u];

In other words, it [i][b]is a sin[/b][/i] to not believe into Jesus.

Quote:
death is not separation from God in Hell because paul said do die is gain. death is separation of body from soul, and you choose where you go.

Brother, everyone is already totally dead in trespasses and sins. The only way to any kind of meaninful life - and yes, the choice is ours - is through faith in Jesus Christ.

 2005/7/23 14:18
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3304
Texas

 Re:

Well, we all have to work out our "own" salvation, Surly the blood shed at the cross was not in vain, or Jesus sure died a horrible worthless death, so I personally believe in my salvation that Christ and I are on the same page, he tells me I would like to perfect you Mr. Bill but all have fallen short including you and that is what my blood was shed for so do your best and I will help you work out the rest.

You know even though the Bible might be in black and white and some of us including myself try and interpret scripture to fit what they want to believe that is why the most important principle to remember in studying God's Word is that it can only be understood with the help of the Holy Spirit. Those who approach the Bible without the Holy Spirit to teach them, may gain some insight into their lives, but will receive no life-changing revelation.

There are cultists and atheists who know the Bible better than many Christians. Why are some able to read of God's Word, and yet bear no fruit in their lives? The answer is simple: Because, they are not open to the Holy Spirit's guidance as they read the Word. Therefore, it is absolutely crucial that we acknowledge the presence of the Holy Spirit and ask Him to lead us into all truth and to make the mysteries of God's Word known to our spirit. Just my two cents. :-?


_________________
Bill

 2005/7/23 14:19Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
...a place to come alongside each other and seek the face of Jesus.



This is one of the best mission statements I have ever heard.

Beautiful.


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/7/23 14:27Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

does anyone read what I am accualy saying? If you did, you would not disagree. It is basic theology that I post, with no debat needed. I just want people to see the scriptures more clearly by being specific and using specific terms for a more accurate interprataion.
I am only saying two words that you all are missing. die [u]in[/u] your sins you go to hell not [u]because[/u] of your sins. The word "Because" denots a reason for whatever. if the reason you are in hell or if it was because of your sins, the cross of Christ is no effect because you still sin, and because of sin you are saying you go to hell. All I am saying is that Jesus takes the condemnation of that sin off of us so we are no longer in sin.
1Corinth. 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet [u]in your sins[/u].
Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life [u]in Christ Jesus[/u] hath made me free from the law of sin and death. You are eather in the law of sin and death or in Christ Jesus.

What I write is not off base.
It is like when someone says Jesus died on the cross [u]for us[/u]. He didn't. He died on the cross [u]because of us[/u] [u]for[/u] His Father.
Saying that he died for us is man centered. The other way is Christ centered.
We must get away from the man centered religion!

When ever you all try to show me I am wrong, you are only showing me that you misunderstand what I have written and when I respond to your replies I am only explaining your error in your response to what I have said. I love the Truth, if I am wrong, my mouth will be stopped by your rebuttle.

 2005/7/23 16:54Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3304
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

Logic wrote:It is basic theology that I post, with no debat needed.




basic theology? I did not know there was such a thing as basic theology, all of it seems so alive and in depth to me, I will only really understand it when I meet the person who inspired it,then and only then will there be no more debates. :-)


_________________
Bill

 2005/7/23 17:29Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Logic,

I can recognize that you are trying to make a point...but your recent threads tend to come off like argumentative challenges. Unlike many forums, this place tends to work better when we invest time listening, rather then immediately provoking one other. If all we do is post manifestos then communication and fellowship breaks down.

There are pilgrims here who have long been walking the rugged road that basic theology can only describe...I have been humbled by them. I continue to be appreciative of the caliber of descipleship in this forum. Before starting any new threads, why not take some time to interact in some of their conversations?

As for this thread, let me offer this bit of understanding...

Lewis Sperry Chafer, who founded the Dallas Theological Seminary, had commentary that was along similar lines to your thesis. (My memory may not render this exactly as he put it...)"People need not go to hell because of sin but because they have rejected the solution for sin in Christ." His premise wasn't designed to shock or to put forth an antinomian gospel, but to underline the fact that God was, through Christ, propitious towards all men...not just saints. He was trying to recognize the completion of the work Christ did on behalf of the world whether man enters into or not. "And He is the propitiation for our sins; not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world."1 John 2:2

He was not saying that sin has not made the sinner the object of everlasting wrath. Chafer, (whose theology was decended from the likes of the Plymouth Brethren and Jonathan Edwards), believed God was just in reserving utter wrath for man because of sin. His statement was meant to underscore the double tragedy of men going to hell for sins that Jesus died for. Yes, all men are condemned by God for their sin, but now there is a reconciliation possible through Christ who has borne all sin which renders God propitious.

If there was any shock value in his premise, it was to challenge the wrong notion that our sorrowful repentence over sin is the work that softens God's heart towards us. On the contrary it is revealed, "Behold the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the World." Asking God to see our sorrow over sin as good behavior that merits mercy is "rank unbelief" in the work of Jesus Christ. True repentance is a work born of true faith in God's satisfacton with His son. With this Godward understanding firmly in place, not believing does indeed become the ultimate reason for condemnation.

MC


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Mike Compton

 2005/7/23 20:02Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
I can recognize that you are trying to make a point...but your recent threads tend to come off like argumentative challenges.



I am sorry for that, I tend to bluntly state facts and not to put things in a more social syntax.

Quote:
this place tends to work better when we invest time listening, rather then immediately provoking one other.



My intention is only to provoke one to search the Scritures more deeply and to see the truth from our doctorine in a more difined view.

Quote:
As for this thread, let me offer this bit of understanding...



I thank you for your understanding, I am glad to see that you can realate to where I am comming from.

Quote:
His premise wasn't designed to shock or to put forth an antinomian gospel, but to underline the fact that God was, through Christ, propitious towards all men...not just saints. He was trying to recognize the completion of the work Christ did on behalf of the world whether man enters into or not.



It was neather my premise, but that is the way people took it and it verily frusterated me. I didn't know how to be any more clear on what I was trying to say, and that is maybe why I sounded the way I did.

Quote:
Yes, all men are condemned by God for their sin, but now there is a reconciliation possible through Christ who has borne all sin which renders God propitious.



My main point is all men are only condemned by God for their rejection of Christ and in the old testement They were only condemned by God for their unbelief Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Job 19:25 For I know [that] my redeemer liveth, and [that] he shall stand at the latter [day] upon the earth:
and also for the non-jews Jonah 3:5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.

Quote:
If there was any shock value in his premise, it was to challenge the wrong notion that our sorrowful repentence over sin is the work that softens God's heart towards us.



Same thing goes for my topic but as I said My intention is only to provoke one to search the Scritures more deeply and to see the truth from our doctorine in a more difined view.

again I thank you for your understanding.

 2005/7/23 22:01Profile
ellie
Member



Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 189
UK

 Re: Quote: our doctorine



Logic...

Quote: My intention is only e:[size=x-small]to provoke one to search the Scritures more deeply [/size] and [size=x-small]to see the truth from our doctorine[/size]in a more difined view.


You say "our Doctrine" which is, what, who, where, when.

Who are you, what church do you attend.




ellie

 2005/7/24 19:06Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
You say "our Doctrine" which is, what, who, where, when.
Who are you, what church do you attend.



Our Doctrine as in the Doctrine of the Church of our lord witch all true Christians attend.

I am a conservative Christian that studies apologetics.

My Church is Non-denominational with Pastor Bill Randles. Try Googling his name once. and go to the websight. http://www.believersingrace.com/

We believe the Bible, both old and new testaments, is the Word of God, it is infallible and inspired and to submit to Jesus as Lord is to submit to the absolute authority of the Bible.

We believe in one eternal God, infinite and personal,--our Creator as well as our Redeemer, the Almighty, the Father. God has revealed Himself unto us as three eternal persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

We believe that Jesus Christ is our Creator, God, manifested for us in the flesh, born of a virgin--truly man, truly God, but unmixed, crucified as a sacrifice for our sins and after totally satisfying the just judgement of God against us as sinners, He was raised from the dead, bodily, ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God, as the only true and living way to God.

We believe in the fall of man as recorded in Genesis 3, that though man is created in the image of God, and to this day he bears that image, the fall has resulted in absolute sinfulness and total depravity of man. We believe that there is none righteous, no not one, there is none that doeth good, none that seeks God. Man can only be saved by justifying God, believing and acknowledging the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and repenting, allowing God to justify us freely by grace.

We believe that water baptism is the true confession of repentance of dead works, and resurrection with and in union to Jesus, and it is the appeal to God for a good conscience, and salvation from this age. But you need not to be baptised in order to go to heaven as the theif on the cross was never baptised

We believe God has called us to a holy life by the power of the Spirit and the means of grace, prayer, the Word, fellowship, and worship.

We believe that we receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon us in the baptism of the Spirit--power to witness and have supernatural gifts to edify one another and the lost.

We believe in the communion elements and what they represent, the Body of Christ broken for our healing and reunity--the Blood of Jesus shed for the remission of our sins and the communion to renew our fellowship in Him.

We believe in the soon coming of our Lord Jesus, and our gathering together unto Him, the end of this age, the resurrection of all, saved and lost, the saved shall receive reward and the lost shall be expelled to receive eternal punishment.

 2005/7/24 19:48Profile





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