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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Praying for what is necessary

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AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3735
Louisiana

 Re:

Those that serve the Lord with all of theirs hearts will go through many trials, but God will give them the grace in the trials and will deliver them.

God’s will for His children is that they would be blessed:
Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers.
(3 John 1:2).

God has called us to be overcomers.

“The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came so that they would have life, and have itabundantly.” (John 10:10)

The children of Israel walked in the blessing of God as long as they served the Lord. When they rebelled, then they were given over to the hand of the enemy until they repented.

As the children of God we must be able to discern the difference between a trial, chastisement, and the attacks of the powers of darkness. We are to rejoice in our trials, repent when we are disciplined by the Lord, and resist the devil when we He comes to kill, steal, and destroy.


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Mike

 2021/3/18 10:51Profile
passerby
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Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 682


 Re:

It's too unfamiliar and superfluous to me, I won't dare myself or advise others to do it. But you have your own reasons to think the other way and I guess you have stated them clearly.

 2021/3/18 15:17Profile
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Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 537
Cambodia

 Re:

Men willing to pray for extreme results that are Christlike both in spirit and in word.


Exodus 32:31-32

So Moses returned to the LORD and said, “Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods of gold. But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.”

Romans 9:1-3

I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit- that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish (literally and more accurately “I pray for”) that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh.

We do not have this level of love, I agree. However, the notion that one might be in favor of, if necessary, and pray for, far lesser trials for ourselves for the sake of others or our own Christlikeness is not as strange or far fetched as a first blush consideration might suggest. How much like Moses and Paul are we willing to imitate as they imitated Jesus our Lord?


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Robert

 2021/3/18 19:09Profile
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1902


 Re: Praying for what is necessary

It is a good point that the OP is making. I have not read any responses so far. But here is my view.

When I am asked to pray for those who are going through health issues or job loss, I pray that God's will be done in their life. My prayer is always, the purpose for which God has allowed this trail in their life should be fulfilled.

It is same in my life as well. God definitely wants us to have a good job and a healthy life. But he allows us to go through Job loss or sickness so that he can accomplish something in our life. Our goal is to pray that his purpose be accomplished through our trails. Our goal should not be that we or our brothers should somehow escape the trails.

Jesus himself taught us to pray that we should be kept from trails and temptations. So we should not pray for trails and temptations but when we go through one, our goal should be to have God's will be done through that trail.


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Sreeram

 2021/3/18 19:17Profile
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 Re:

I have tried to reconcile the prayer not to be led "into temptation" with the fact that God in fact intentionally leads His people into situations to be tested ( which often includes temptation by the evil one). Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness explicitly to be tempted by Satan and therefrom, tested by God. God does not tempt but he does test and both are happening in each temptation of the evil one. So, the conundrum. Perhaps, the solution is to read the language of the prayer more deeply, that is, we are praying that we will "not be lead INTO temptation" that is to fall for or into the temptation. Like Jesus told the apostles in the Garden of Gethsemane that they should pray that they not "enter into temptation" which to me sounds far different and more than simply telling me to pray that God prohibit me from being exposed to a temptation by the evil one at all. The prayer then is a prayer for victory over temptation and not one for keeping it out of my life all together.


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Robert

 2021/3/18 19:41Profile
BranchinVINE
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Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 819
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 Re:


I agree with Mike’s posts.

Trials were not prayed for:

1 Pet. 4:12-13 –
Beloved, DO NOT BE SURPRISED at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation.


When trials come, we are blessed when we persevere under trials:

James 1:12 –
Blessed is a man who perseveres under trial; for once he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.

James 5:11 –
Behold, we count those blessed who endured. You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome of the Lord’s dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful.


We can persevere because we know that God is with us and His love never fails.

Heb. 13:5-6 –
For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
So we may boldly say: “The LORD is my helper; I will not fear. What can man do to me?”

Isa. 43:2-3 –
When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
And through the rivers, they will not overflow you.
When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched,
Nor will the flame burn you.
For I am the LORD your God,
The Holy One of Israel, your Savior;

Rom. 8:35-39 –
Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or trouble, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? ……………But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


We persevere by trusting in the Lord, hoping in the Lord, and, waiting for the Lord.

Ps. 33:20-22 –
Our soul waits for the LORD;
He is our help and our shield.
For our heart rejoices in Him,
Because we trust in His holy name.
Let Your lovingkindness, O LORD, be upon us,
According as we have hoped in You.

Ps. 130:5-6 –
I wait for the LORD, my soul does wait,
And in His word do I hope.
My soul waits for the Lord
More than the watchmen for the morning;
Indeed, more than the watchmen for the morning.

Deut. 33:27 --
The eternal God is your refuge,
And underneath are the everlasting arms;
He will thrust out the enemy from before you,
And will say, ‘Destroy!’


“In Thy strong hand I lay me down……”


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Jade

 2021/3/19 1:17Profile
BranchinVINE
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Joined: 2016/6/15
Posts: 819
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 Re:

Hi Robert,

Quote:
If all this is true, am I a nut job to pray for necessary trials for myself? for others?



I guess you can pray whatever you want for yourself.

But, for others?

This scripture comes to my mind:

Num. 31:23 –
everything that can stand the fire, you shall pass through the fire, and it shall be clean, but it shall be purified with water for impurity. But whatever cannot stand the fire you shall pass through the water.

I must say that I do not fully understand the meaning of this scripture. And, because I do not fully understand it, I am reminded of just how very little I understand, and, how unsearchable are God’s judgements and how unfathomable are His ways. Who can know the mind of the Lord? Who can be His counsellor? (Rom.11:33-36).

If a blind man guides a blind man will they not both fall into a pit (Luke 6:39)?

Isa. 55:8-9 --
For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways
For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

The Good Shepherd Himself will lead us in His higher way.

Isa.42:16 (NKJV) –
I will bring the blind by a way they did not know;
I will lead them in paths they have not known.
I will make darkness light before them,
And crooked places straight.
These things I will do for them,
And not forsake them.


We can pray for what is necessary as Paul prayed:

Eph. 1: 15-23 –
For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers; that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Eph. 3:14-19 –
For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.



It is wise to let God have absolute sovereignty over all things.

Ps. 37:5 –
Commit your way to the LORD,
Trust also in Him, and He will do it.
He will bring forth your righteousness as the light
And your judgment as the noonday.

Eph. 3:20-21 –
Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us, to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.


"His truth, not mine, the resting place;
His love, not mine, the tie."

"Enough that God my Father knows --
Nothing this faith can dim.
He gives the very best to those
Who leave the choice with Him."


Blessings


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Jade

 2021/3/19 1:20Profile
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Joined: 2017/2/12
Posts: 537
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 Re:

Brothers and Sisters,

There is no prohibition in the Scripture for praying for whatever the cost is to be paid in order to glorify Jesus, spread the Gospel, become like Jesus, bring salvation to the world.

The point of my post was to point out what is going on in the heart.

We will pay the price, theoretically, of spreading the Gospel, sanctification, or bringing glory to God. Usually, what this means in many is that they will pay the price if it is forced upon them by God. The idea of volunteering to go to the dangerous place, to enthusiastically ask for sanctification no matter what it cost, to ask for whatever is necessary to be paid, even with our life, has become a little too foreign to Christian preference, sensibility or worse yet, our notion of God.

I don't say this as an accusation of any posters on this thread. My hope was to disrupt the status quo. To bring introspection and challenge set theories and traditions.

Contrary to what has been said, there is no prohibition in Scripture nor is there a teaching that would go against my original proposition. The fact is that we are to rejoice in, be grateful for and even consider it a gift from God to suffer for His Name and cause. This is not customary thinking in Christian minds anymore.

The truth is there are many of normal "faith" as defined in Hebrews 11 that thought what I suggested. They did not consider their lives of any value in this world. They willingly offered up all to Christ for His use no matter what that meant and considered it not cost, but privilege. I know you have read Foxes Book of Martyrs. The spirit of the great cloud of witnesses would wholeheartedly agree with my post but please don't think I say that in boasting or casually. Counting the cost has been a real world real life exercise in my life. I'm sure yours as well. Just trying to remind everyone that He is worthy as we enter into costly times.


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Robert

 2021/3/19 9:02Profile
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1902


 Re:

Quote:

We will pay the price, theoretically, of spreading the Gospel, sanctification, or bringing glory to God. Usually, what this means in many is that they will pay the price if it is forced upon them by God. The idea of volunteering to go to the dangerous place, to enthusiastically ask for sanctification no matter what it cost, to ask for whatever is necessary to be paid, even with our life, has become a little too foreign to Christian preference, sensibility or worse yet, our notion of God.



I agree with the spirit of your post. Praying for trails in our life is taking it a bit too much. Jesus himself prayed that the cup to be taken away from him. But he also yielded that to God's will. Apostle Paul prayed for the thorn in his flesh (2Cor12:6) to be taken away 3 times, but once God revealed that the thorn was necessary to keep Paul humble then he accepted it. Same way Jesus accepted the cup as it was eventually his father's will.

Paul said that he learnt to be content in both abundance and in poverty. Which means Paul did not force himself to poverty, when there was abundance he did not run away from it. Instead he was content when the abundance was taken away from him.

There needs to be a balance in our Christian theology, jumping to extremes is not good. The balance appears to pray for comfort yet yield completely to God's will to bring trails. Going to one extreme of always expecting comfort or the other extreme of praying for trails are both equally wrong. I do not see Jesus or Apostle Paul (the 2 men who called Christians to follow them) falling to either of these extremes.


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Sreeram

 2021/3/19 10:45Profile
AbideinHim
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Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3735
Louisiana

 Re:

Thank you Brother Robert for your post.

We don’t pray for trials, we take up the cross.

“Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.”

The Cost Of Discipleship:

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’ Or what king, going out to encounter another king in war, will not sit down first and deliberate whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? And if not, while the other is yet a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks for terms of peace. So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:26-33).


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Mike

 2021/3/19 10:49Profile





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