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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Praying for what is necessary

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CofG
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Joined: 2017/2/12
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Cambodia

 Praying for what is necessary

In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 1: 6-7.

In this passage it seems that Peter by the Spirit is saying it is necessary according to the will of God that His saints go through various trials of His choosing in order to prove and refine their faithfulness. Necessary trials that we rejoice in because it results in praise, glory and honor for Jesus. Assuming we desire that above all else should we not desire as our Father does, these necessary trials. In fact, isn't it safe to assume that our good Father only allows and plans those trials that are in fact "necessary" to this end of the praise of the glory of Jesus ?

If all this is true, am I a nut job to pray for necessary trials for myself? for others? I have talked to many distraught parents of prodigal children who have confessed they have prayed often for God to bring whatever is necessary into their adult children's lives so that they will turn back to God before it is too late. Why not the same praying for ourselves and believers. Praying whatever is necessary Lord for my Christlikeness and the glory and honor of Jesus.

I guess it all depends on how much we want what God wants and what His will is for us and for the glory of Jesus. Shouldn't we pray according to God's will. Jesus did. Not my will but thine.

Don't hear that much in today's trials. Don't hear that at many prayer meetings.

I hope people will not accuse me of false humility or that I naively find this an easy idea. I have been through many serious trials and sufferings before. Praise Jesus.


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Robert

 2021/3/17 9:03Profile
AbideinHim
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 Re: Praying for what is necessary

Brother, it has been my experience that trials will come. We do not have to pray for them. We praise God in every trial knowing that it is our faith that is being tried, and our faith will grow stronger , and God will bring us through the trial. The trying of our faith works patience (endurance).



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Mike

 2021/3/17 12:08Profile
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Joined: 2016/3/9
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 Re: Praying for what is necessary


Thanks for sharing brother!

When I was younger I would pray constantly for our Father to break me. Now I come to His throne room boldly through Christ sacrifice and I just “ present myself as a living sacrifice to Him each day which is my spiritual act of worship.” For me this is acknowledging His complete control over my whole life in whatever He seems fit concerning me.

Then “ rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God for you in Christ Jesus." 1 Thess 5:16-18 God is really using this daily with me now! Giving thanks for everything as it happens seemingly good or otherwise is creating an inward change which brings true joy through Christ that I haven’t the words to express rightly.


“Shouldn’t we pray according to Gods’ will?” Amen!

Lately when I pray for brethren I’m praying for what Father sees the brethren need prayer concerning. At this time it allows me to pray in our Fathers’ will for our brethren. Prayer is experiential to me as the depths of communion with our Father we can reach are beyond expression.

As I have been seeking more depth in prayer my wife added to the scriptural prayers I have starting last night.

Praying for those who persecute my brethren in Christ around the world, then praying for our persecuted brethren around the world, adding this two the three scriptural commands we are to pray.


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William

 2021/3/17 12:27Profile
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 Re: Praying for what is necessary

Psalm 119:71
It is good for me that I have been afflicted; that I might learn thy statutes.

Affliction can come as a result of our attachments to the world, as well as from our detachments and the resistance to which it is met.

Our prayer in both cases is one of thanksgiving for He is there with us in the midst of the fire where unnecessary things are burned away and necessary things are refined 🙏🏻


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Fletcher

 2021/3/17 13:49Profile
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 Re:

What Mike said.


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Todd

 2021/3/17 14:00Profile
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 Re:

Thanks Guys. Why shouldn't we pray for trials?

I think we can agree that God uses trials, even intends them, for our good. Scripturally, one of our greatest goods is Christ likeness. We know that trials increase Christ likeness and in fact many aspects of Christ likeness absolutely cannot be achieved apart from trials.

I'm not a pain or martyrdom lover. I'm a Christ lover and being sanctified and glorified into His likeness is my Father's will and trials are a significant part of His way. Trials without purpose are not good. Trials with purpose are what I'm referring to. God does not allow a trial without purpose. His will is glorification of me. His way includes necessary trials. I want His will for a lot of supreme reasons. I need His trials. I therefore can't say I don't want His necessary trials.

Back to my question. If one doesn't think we should pray for trials, is there a Biblical reason not to pray for "necessary" trials ? Jesus set his face resolutely for all His trials. In fact, He volunteered for them and pursued them like flint. The devil tried to tempt him out of his trials on two very well known occasions. And Jesus ultimately embraced and prayed for the trials by praying for His Father's will to be done which absolutely and undeniably was a conscious prayer embracing the coming trials.

Jesus took Paul aside before the start of his ministry and showed him how much he must suffer for Jesus' sake. Paul embraced the cost. In fact, when others tried to convince him to avoid a coming trial in Jerusalem, he shook the naysayers off. He was ready to go. Embraced it because he knew the who and the why behind it.

At the end of the day, we are either convinced that God ordains every single trial that comes into our life and has determined it, that they are necessary. He's a good Father and He is in control. Or He isn't and He allows and even intends trials only for our harm. Lest I be misunderstood, Satan intended the trials of Jesus for harm. God intended it for good.




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Robert

 2021/3/17 18:27Profile
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 Re:

Amen!
“I think we can agree that God uses trials, even intends them, for our good. Scripturally, one of our greatest goods is Christ likeness. We know that trials increase Christ likeness and in fact many aspects of Christ likeness absolutely cannot be achieved apart from trials.”

The Apostle Paul had many trials, temptations, and persecution. He wasn’t praying for them. Anyone who has made a full surrender to Jesus Christ, is filled with the Spirit, and is advancing the Kingdom of God will become a target for the enemy, and will go through many trials.

Trials can be used by God to make us more like Christ if we respond to them in the right way. Some trials are the chastisement of the Lord, and benefit us if there is true repentance.


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Mike

 2021/3/17 18:56Profile
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 Re:

Mike, how do you know Paul didn't pray for them ? Is there an actual reason not to pray for trials other than personal preference ? Is it sinful? Is it morbid? Is it contrary to God's will for us ?

In reverse, the Scripture does say that we should pray according to God's will. If a prophet were to prophesy in a gathering that the Lord has determined that a trial is to come in order to chasten His people, we could very reasonably pray three things. First, we would repent of the thing that the Lord had a problem with. Then, we would pray that "this cup" might pass. But then, in order to be Christ like, we would say.....Father, if it is necessary, then your will be done." I think you would agree with that.

Accordingly, my prayer might be ..... "Father, I want your burden for me to become like Jesus to become my burden. I want whatever is necessary to make that happen, Whatever "way" of transformation is necessary, including any necessary trials because I would rather have a necessary trial and be like Jesus than to avoid it and not have that." How could someone object to that? Not embrace that ? Not saying this about you, but it seems that when push comes to shove, most prefer their own comforts to Christ likeness, in balance.

(Edit)... I was reminded of John's request to sit at Christ's right hand and his agreement to drink the same cup Jesus had to drink in order for that to happen. Was that an improper motive and request and an inappropriate agreement to embrace the same cup to make his request come true?


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Robert

 2021/3/17 19:14Profile
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 Re:

Can you find a scripture where someone actually prays for trials to come their way?

Jesus prayed “lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil.” Certainly temptations can be a very real trial in certain circumstances.

There is no doubt Paul went through many hardships. But where did he pray for them? In fact he prayed for release from his thorn in the flesh which God did not see fit to grant.

I think Mike is on the right track. Jesus said a believer WILL face tribulation. But never once does he say to pray that they come.

They will come of their own accord. The devil will see to that.


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Todd

 2021/3/17 19:33Profile
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 Re:

Todd, I think we come from two different points of view. In the past, you have objected that God does not plan harm to his children. I agree that he does not intend harm but he does plan it. I know you disagree with that so let's just agree to disagree about that.

As to people praying for it, you still haven't answered the question of why it's not right to pray for that.

I gave the example of John's request to Jesus. I gave the example of Jesus' prayer for his own upcoming trial.

I'm sure you have prayed the prayer that God would make you more like Jesus and you know that is a prayer implicitly that God would use the means that are necessary to accomplish that. In fact, then, you have prayed implicitly already for something that I think we can therefore pray explicitly for.

If Christ likeness and the Father's will are higher values to me than life on earth itself, then this kind of praying unto whatever is necessary recognizes that God for His own reasons has determined that trials are necessary for Christ likeness and His glory. As a matter of principle, you may disagree with the premise that trials are necessary, may come through Satan, but nonetheless are predetermined by God our Father. If you do so disagree then I see your point entirely. If however, the truth is that God does determine in His ultimate wisdom that trials are necessary and are His will, then we should embrace, give thanks for, rejoice in and even pray for them. It depends on what side of that fence you are on. I'm just advocating that if you are on my side of that fence, then praying for necessary trials makes good sense if we are already praying for Christ likeness, this because the two go together implicitly anyway, at least on my side of that fence.

(Edit). Sorry. Just thought of another example. Paul said that he considered the loss of all things by his own voluntary walking away from them as nothing compared to the surpassing value of knowing Jesus and joining in the fellowship of His sufferings. Hebrews 11 says Moses walked away from Pharaohs court and considered the reproach of Christ far greater reward. Of course it doesn't say he prayed for it. He actually did more, he willingly and voluntarily walked away having considered comfort and reproach and chosen the latter with his life. Finally, everytime you or I do what Romans 12:1 says and we in prayer to God "offer up ourselves as a living sacrifice" to God, we are by definition praying our lives into trials, loss and sufferings and God calls that "reasonable". Romans 12:1 is an instruction to prayer to become a sacrifice.
I think I've thoroughly convinced myself now of the answer to my question. Perhaps not as persuasively to anyone else thogh.


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Robert

 2021/3/17 19:47Profile





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